User talk:Adam Restling/Archive 1
User talk:Adam Restling/Archive 2
User talk:Adam Restling/Archive 3
User talk:Adam Restling/Archive 4
Welcome
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Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! -- Twocents (Talk) 21:04, November 14, 2009
Lol
So you know, Mad Rest is not a user, it is just the name on Master D's sig. They are the same person. Thought I would let you know that so you dont keep addressing them as separate people.--GodPray 02:57,8/8/2011
Help?
Hi Adam, I am Bereisgreat. Uhm, I need some help on a wiki of mine. I noticed that you are part of the Translation Corner members and that you can translate Japanese kanji to romaji? Now, my wiki isn't as big to have a real translation corner like the Bleach Wiki, but I am in a pinch on 4 character names on my wiki. The wiki in question is the Kuroko no Basuke Wiki. I know it's a little un-ethical to ask for such help on another wiki like I'm doing now, but I've been trying to translate these four lines and this is the only place I could ask for help for. If you want to help me with my wiki, I'll fill you in on the details on your talk page over there. Of course, no pressure, if you say you want to limit your work to this wiki, I completely understand and I'll look somewhere else. BereisgreatShout! 547 edits on this Wiki 12:50, September 3, 2011 (UTC)
Grimmjow Issue
There is small issue forming. We are trying to confirm the status of Grimmjow finally. In Chapter 379 Ichigo makes a statement to himself about Yammys attitude toward the other Espada. In it states that Ulquiorra, Nnoitra and Grimmjow are dead. We need to find out if there is enough from the statement to infer that he means all three. I know it sounds crazy that he would state all three if he didnt mean all three. If there is anything you can determine from whats there let me know. Thanks. --Salubri (Talk) 19:12, September 4, 2011 (UTC)
Well actually that was just it. Harribel is the only one confirmed to survive and thats after being explicitly healed by orihime. This really isnt a fan belief issue either he is dead or not. Ichigo's experience with Arrancar caring or not caring about each other is also largely irrelevant. The information we are looking for is if that point where all three are mentioned as dead by ichigo in the same thought. Also Ichigo was there for Nnoitra, Ulquiorra as well as Grimmjow. The point being that his point seems to indicate a direct idea that Grimmjow is dead. The issue is the general belief he is dead a and gone after so long and his injuries and being defenseless in hueco mundo, also the only reiatsu harribel senses upon returning to hueco mundo is what left of Yammy's fading reiatsu. The point was to have some form of confirmation to put it to rest for the site. What we are basically asking is if the information there is of Ichigo stating his general belief that all three are in fact dead. We already know two to be for sure him listing Grimmjow in the same context would indicate exactly that. So is that what the translation is saying?--Salubri (Talk) 06:55, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
No point to that we have already confirmed there is no mention of Grimmjow in unmasked, for all purposes the general belief is that he is likely dead regardless if we cant confirm that. Besides the obvious points he serves no purpose in the storyline any longer and is nolonger a threat to Ichigo who has well advanced beyond him. Ulquiorra was a greater challenge and was put to death i think grimmjows importance extended as a catalyst to show the power of what the espada wielded and antagonist of the time. Nel is a forgotten and neglected character, grimmjow not so much, as he was important once but stopped having a purpose after his defeat. --Salubri (Talk) 08:02, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
unmasked
hey, i was just wondering if you know where to get a copy of unmasked? i so wanna read it. hahaha. thanks. ((: —This unsigned comment is by Agate_genbu (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
Usage of ō in place of -ou
Hey Adam I had a question. I notice the current policy is to change things like kidou or zanpakutou to kidō and zanpakutō respectively, but is this always appropriate? Say for a song that the artist and record label use the -ou rather than ō? I'd like your input on it, but by all means more important work on the wiki comes first. ThanksLicourtrix (talk) 04:07, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
Unmasked
If the translations you already did have description further explaining the abilities, we need those as well. It appears there is more on the pages then the names and numbers. Also the rest of the pages outside of the birthdays, heights, weights still need to be translated as well. --Salubri (Talk) 08:04, September 21, 2011 (UTC)
Actually yea it would be good to have the actual descriptions. If you need the scans of the pages [[1]] this should help that information is crucial regardless. Thanks.--Salubri (Talk) 18:14, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
Kukkapūro: Hollow or Arrancar
Hey Adam. When you get the chance, would you mind double checking a translation for me please? I just made a page for Kukkapūro and while going through the translation supplied by JapaneseOPfan to help make the page, I noticed that the dog is referred to as a Hollow, not an Arrancar. I always took it that because he was number 35 then he must be an Arrancar, but the translation suggests otherwise. Could you please see what you can make of it for us. It is early on in page 1 of the Nestle to Night story in UNMASKED, which I have placed above, along with the info page on him from elsewhere in UNMASKED. Thanks ~~Ууp <talk> 20:02, September 30, 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Adam. I'm having some weird glitches with editing today no matter what browser I use, so I can't edit the page right now, but I'll get that page updated whenever the editor decides to be nice to me again (if that ever happens) ~~Ууp <talk> 16:56, October 5, 2011 (UTC)
Re:
That is something that Salubri would have to approve. The problem with Xcetron though was that he is not going to be happy until we write the entire thing in English, which we will not be doing.--GodPray 01:12,12/24/2011
- I would basically say this. Adam you do not nor are you required to appease any user with your translations simply on the grounds that they disagree with it. To date all of your work on the site has been great and we have never had reason to question it. When it comes to translation you have provided spot on translation of what we are looking for. As in the particular situation you are referring to I wouldnt be concerned about it, the whole conversation is basically one that you should have never had to been drawn into. There was no issue of the accuracy of the translation. This situation was of someone not being willing to look for the knowledge behind the content and basically trying to water down the information. We already determined how to handle the translations on the site as well as how to use what you have given us. There is no reason to change it now because its not Americanized enough for one user and you shouldnt feel as though your forced into a position to appease anyone over a situation that you dont have to deal with, because of their personal issues.--Salubri (Talk) 22:57, December 24, 2011 (UTC)
- well i understand your approach and that would be fine. though you should also inform both Yyp and Arrancar109 about the idea as well.--Salubri (Talk) 23:33, December 24, 2011 (UTC)
That sounds fine to me. ~~Ууp <talk> 11:28, December 25, 2011 (UTC)
Vote for Jan 2012 Main Page Features
Hi there. Just a quick note to say that voting for the featured article, picture and quote on the Main Page is open. As per the rules of the votes, users who have been members for over a month and who have made at least five (constructive) edits this month are entitled to vote and you meet those criteria. The vote closes at midnight (UTC) on 30th December, so please consider voting for them, or even just for one. Thanks for your time. ~~Ууp <talk> 12:02, December 29, 2011 (UTC)
Spirits Are Forever With You
Are you gonna be prepared for the translations for this new novel "Bleach: Spirits are forever with you". In addition, a new data book titled "Bleach Rebooted Souls". Both should be out in Japan on June 4th. Just seeing if your gonna be prepared for it. --Salubri (Chat) 19:19,5/29/2012
Yo
Been busy with Real Life lately? Translation Corner's been missing you.
Ever since... Salubri, I think... chewed me out for my painfully-amateur attempts at helping with translation work, mostly kanji and whatnot, well... nobody can say that I don't learn eventually.
In any case, dropped you a note. --Reikson (talk) 14:37, August 22, 2012 (UTC)
Game Translations
Hey, I saw that you recently replied on the Translation Corner. Aside from what we have that needs to be translated there, I'm not sure how much you have on your plate, but if I gave you the names of some techniques from some of the games (namely Soul Resurrección) do you think you would be able to give me translations on them? I want to add them on the Other Media sections of the characters in the game. Arrancar109 (Talk) 10:44, September 1, 2012 (UTC)
Translations
There is also a ongoing issue with the name of Juha Bach found on Talk:Juha Bach, then there is the issue of Chōjirō Sasakibe's bankai name as well.--Salubri (Chat) 13:29,9/1/2012
- Hey Adam, mind taking a look at the Vandenreich Leader's name? It is the translation I am most weary of at the moment. I have refrained from changing the name everywhere on the site until we could have you confirm it. Raw is here--GodPray 16:05,9/1/2012
Sorry to bother you yet again Adam, but could you please take another look at the name of Chōjirō's bankai, as I suspect that you've either mistaken or been misled on one of the kanji included. According to this raw, the kanji should read "黄煌厳霊離宮", unfortunately meaning "离" (ri) itself doesn't feature, only its derivative "離". I recently discussed some information concerning this that you might find useful here, and Cnet had an interesting theory on how Gonryō connected to the bankai's lightning-based ability. Hopefully some of this helps, though there's a little too much noise in that raw to help solve the dakuten issue. Blackstar1 (talk) 02:17, September 2, 2012 (UTC)
Incident and name change
Its really a non-issue at this point so as far as the incident it was done and over with. In relation to the solemn vs stern i dont know how much change is going on there. To be accurate Solemn means Stern and stern means solemn it really doesnt matter which one is in use. I really dont feel that changing from whats always been used when its not necessary is a issue. What really needs more work is the Juhobach issue checking the talk page will further show what im talkin about, we need absolute confirmation on this.--Salubri (Chat) 00:29,9/3/2012
- Well solemn means dignified, serious and stern means serious, unrelenting, strict, severe. In a Thesaurus solemn is the same as formal, stately, stern, grim, somber and Stern is the same as severe, strict. I do find issue with changing the meaning of a zanpakuto's name to accommodate the name of its bankai. One comes before the other and to do so the way you suggest would be like naming a parent after their child. My suggestion would be to be very careful with trying to make things accommodating to each other and just be accurate to what the translation is for the particular word or word set in question. --Salubri (Chat) 02:40,9/3/2012
So, like this..? And Sasakibe's name, too.
Okay, so I'm still learning how best to do this, so hopefully this is what you meant when you said leave a message.
Honestly I didn't realise that the mods deferred to you on translations, so it didn't seem like you were overruling me or anything like that at all. But so long as you know I didn't mean offence, and I'm not upset with you, lets move on...
I'd appreciate the perspective of another Japanese speaker re Sasakibe's name order. Surname nickname given name is the general order for archaic figures (samurai etc) in the period texts I've studied, and Tadaoki and Shigekuni, are typical period samurai names IMO. There are a lot of samurai in the Heike Monogatari etc with [surname] no (something-rou, eg tarou, jirou, saburou) [Given name] format identities. (Eg Minamoto no Kurou Yoshitsune) Given their vintage, it appears Kubo's done the same kind of thing with Yama and Sasakibe's names.
The current Western order implies Choujirou is a first name and Tadaoki a middle name, which doesn't seem correct to me. I think the same may be true with Genryuusai's name in Western order. It is a fairly minor thing, admittedly, but it just doesn't seem to make sense in its current form. Since the site is so particular about proper romanisations of names according to Kubo's intentions, I wondered what you thought regarding name order? I would suggest it should be Shigekuni "Genryuusai" Yamamoto and Tadaoki "Choujirou" Sasakibe. Vraieesprit (talk) 01:01, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
- The thing is that this is a english based wiki and naming order on this site is the way the name would be arranged in western style. It was confirmed some years ago that Genryusai was a honorific and not actually his name as such we did what no one else did in relation to the bleach series and moved it to the front of his name as such things are done in the western style. As for Chojiro we need confirmation of what Tadaoki is to make a determination in all it matters little as the name is only used at the top of his article. --Salubri (Chat) 01:43,9/3/2012
- In terms of translating, I think most translations are best when multiple people put in their views, because its more likely to be accurate if multiple people have looked at it. For my part, I'm not a native speaker either xD. I've just finished an MA in both modern and classical Japanese, but my native language is English so I'm coming at it as a second language too and I probably make plenty of mistakes!!
- Re Sasakibe etc. It's not the Western style order I have an issue with, it's the order of the names within the Western style. I don't agree that Genryuusai would be "The Genryuusai" in Western order, more that I've seen numerous US TV credits where nicknames have been written first name "nickname" surname (with the use of " "). We know for a fact Genryuusai is an assumed name, so therefore it makes sense to move the order around to reflect this Western name order.
- In terms of Tadaoki, and what it is, it's clearly his given name, like Shigekuni. Historically samurai were given names when they came of age, one of which was a character from the person who sponsored their "genpuku" and one of which was original to the child (so Sadauji - Takauji, Kiyomori-Shigemori, etc). The characters "tada" and "oki" are actually "chuu" and "iki" if I remember right - neither of which appear in the alternative reading except in given names. Furthermore, oki is an archaic reading of iki which is as far as I know no longer in use even for names in Japan. The same applies for Shigekuni - Shige is only used as a name reading in Japan, and a traditional one at that, Kuni is a character no longer used in Modern Japanese, it's the traditional form of the modern character. By contrast, "Genryuusai" and "Choujirou" have normal readings you would expect in compounds. More, Choujirou fits the trend of Samurai who have the ~rou nickname on account of their family position. For example, Ise no Saburou, Gen-Kurou, etc.
- It is admittedly a small detail, but a bigger one and more significant in terms of the character and their status/age/position than, say, how to properly spell a Hollow's name or something like this. The names Kubo has chosen for both Yama and Sasakibe fit with an older period of Samurai culture before the age of Edo (in which Bleach is set), and I think this ought to be reflected in how the names are presented on the site. Therefore Shigekuni "Genryuusai" Yamamoto, and Tadaoki "Choujirou" Sasakibe. But at the end of the day it is for site admin to decide and I;m not going to try and go against their final decision. I just felt it ought to be explained.Vraieesprit (talk) 13:00, September 3, 2012 (UTC)
- Ugh, I didn't mention my MA to make you think I thought my skills were superior, hope you didn't think that xD I mentioned it to point out I wasn't a native Japanese speaker so could make mistakes xD. I also haven't formally graduated yet, so it's not as impressive as you seem to think - my MA is in Japanese Studies, my BA wasn't ;) I've done six years of Japanese - that's all ;)
：：：As regards this, like I said before, I'm not going to push changes for Choujirou unless people are absolutely happy that they need to happen. The trouble for me is that there are more modern/edo-jidai samurai with Choujirou as their given name, and so up to this point that being his name would've made sense. But then Kubo went and threw a spanner in the works and added Tadaoki to the equation. It completely changed the situation. Of course, leaving it in the native Japanese, there's no problem. We know the order because Kubo gave it to us via Byakuya. But how to put it into Western order, therein lies the challenge. I'm only drawing on the pattern used in the texts I studied...since Tadaoki really can't be anything other than a proper name. I think Kubo probably did it to add vintage to Sasakibe and make us see him as of Genryuusai's era, rather than a later one - but all this is supposition really.
- With Genryuusai, I think we've enough evidence to put Shigekuni "Genryuusai" Yamamoto. This isn't an honorific - Sasakibe calls him "Genryuusai~dono", Ukitake Genryuusai~sensei, so we know that's not the case. It's a name he's chosen to call himself, and that puts it on more solid ground with the historical precedent. It's not uncommon for samurai to take and use names that aren't the ones they were given when they came of age and 504 shows us how that happened for Genryuusai. That being the case, we can confidently prove now that his real name is Shigekuni, his family name is Yamamoto, and "Genryuusai" is the nickname he's known by which in normal English order would go in the middle in "". Vraieesprit (talk) 10:08, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
Translation
Yamamoto's bankai "Zanka no Tachi" supposedly "long blade of the remaining flame", you might have to check the raw.--Salubri (Chat) 10:48,9/5/2012
Bach
Hi, I tried to leave this theory for you on other pages, but obviously was a few hours late coming up with it since everything gets closed and moved so nobody can find it without considering that there may be more ways to look at names... >.>;
- Ignoring everything about Bach and German itself, there is another potential source to the name, which may have less holes — and more possible plot-connections — than trying to backrender Johann or similar.
- His name is based on the Hebrew reading of the letters 'Y.H.W.H.', the Tetragrammaton, which is in Hebrew the absolute name of God (sound familiar?), with its vowels removed. Attempts of vowel reconstruction have lead to Jehovah, Yahweh, etc., but that doesn't concern us. What concerns us is the pronunciation of these four letters as they are. Which is, according to that wiki article Yodh-he-waw-he. As such, the katakana spelling 'Yuhhabahha' is likely an approximation of this.
- While the two may not look similar when being read in latin script, consider that both are transliterations of languages using another script. Already similarities can be spotted between placement of the consonants y and h. Yiddish, a particular German variant of Hebrew used roughly 1000 years ago — interestingly before German as it is now, as it happens — also seems like it would offer possibly a closer similarity to the Japanese pronunciation. - waw is listed on another wiki page as having a pronunciation similar to 'vav' then, and Japanese sometimes tends to confuse v and b. Yodh also was apparently said similar to 'Yud', making a mix something like 'Yud-he-vav-he', even closer to Kubo's Yuhhabahha. The ッハ vs -he- correlation and repetition can be seen, as well as the 'yu' and the 'ba' — sourcing every single letter in 'Yuhhabahha'. xD
- In searching for Y.H.W.H. when researching this, I also came across a DS game, Mugenkōro: Infinite Space, which has the suspiciously familiar 'Yahhabahha'. This too has been close enough to be being compared by native Japanese speakers to the Tetragrammaton (post 931).
- However, despite all this, I do not know enough about Hebrew to posit a best (Yiddish?) spelling, and can only leave my findings, in the hope of a Hebrew speaker or scholar potentially helping.
- You apparently are interested in various languages, so may be able to confirm (or deny) this theory better than I can, but it has enough going for it — both in relation to plot and pronunciation proximity — that I feel it should at least be considered.
- Bluesun1 (talk) 18:12, September 5, 2012 (UTC)
508 and Yama :)
Heya :) I left a message about Yama's Minami technique at the translation forum, if you could take a look and get back to me I'd appreciate it muchly ;) Arigatou.Vraieesprit (talk) 21:08, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
- Thanks for replying :) Have left you some links @ translation corner to show you what I mean, therefore you can make your final decision based on as complete a base of info as possible! Vraieesprit (talk) 22:14, September 21, 2012 (UTC)
- Hiya ;) I thought the best thing to do would be to find another source to verify, so I went digging in Japanese dictionaries to see what they said about it. Hereis the link, hopefully it works. See what you think. I've only encountered jin in terms of a military encampment for samurai/bushi in my MA thesis research, as that's how the term tends to be used, but I acknowledge that 平家物語 predates the Edo period. That said, I don't think military jin changed a whole lot till the 幕末, but I can't say with 100% assurance that it was never used to mean "ranks" that way during Edo. All I can say is that the samurai I've dealt with used other terms like gun, gunzei or tsuwamonodomo.
- Also, I hope you know that I'm not trying to undermine your knowledge or language skill at any point with anything that I post. Just there are some areas I know a lot of things, and some I know very little, and if the ones I know in detail can be of help to you, and therefore the people reading BleachWiki, I feel I ought to share them...Also left a note on the TC about fire ;) Vraieesprit (talk) 14:08, September 22, 2012 (UTC)
Quick Request
Hey Adam, would you mind taking a quick look at Talk:Todō Gizaeimon. Someone has posted a page from MASKED which they claim shows that the page name is wrong.--God|Pray00:28,9/22/2012
- Just to follow up on this before I go ahead with the move. Would proper western naming order for the name then be Izaemon Tōdō or Tōdō Izaemon. I'm assuming its the latter but just want to make sure as the former is what EvilDragonLord claims it to be.--God|Pray19:42,9/22/2012
Conversations
The 3rd Guideline of the Translation Corner page states "This is not a conversation page. It is a simple question and answer page for translation. All conversations should be held on a particular user talk page or the talk page of this page". What took place between you and Vraieesprit should have taken place on a talk page. Instead it cluttered the page with a long conversation. In the future please keep to the talk pages for conversations.--Salubri (Chat) 22:04,9/23/2012
Heya :)
Hi :) Sorry to send another message when you've not had the time to answer my last query yet (I realise you're busy) but just a thought about Yama's Nishi attack: Do you think that "robe" would be a better word than "garb" for 衣? Since gokui are usually prison uniforms, I thought "prison robes" might work best?Vraieesprit (talk) 15:31, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
- But 衣 really means robes, or the layers of a kimono. In professional translations (ie published books) it is translated that way. Clothing is a general translation for the character, but its because all clothing before the Meiji was essentially robe-ish. Hence the kanji has widened in its meaning.
Vraieesprit (talk) 21:16, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
- It's not that I think the current translation is wildly wrong, but Bleach is set in the Edo, which predates Meiji. We know from Rukia's example that prisoners in Bleach wear robes. It's most logical for the setting to translate in context, and I was taught to always translate in context. Plus garb is an ugly word :)
- I guess the ranks question came over kind of patronising. I study samurai, remember? ;) I even found you a pretty picture of a Heike jin ;) Surely you haven't forgotten that? For shame!
- Re: Yama's third technique, it's simply that I can't change your translation, and even if I could, it would be rude to do so without saying anything. All I can do is talk to you about it. And if you don't answer, well, then I can't really do anything at all. And that's frustrating, if you get my drift? In terms of fire and flame, flame does sound better, but I'm always wary of rewriting Kubo's choice of words. For reasons best known to himself he chose to use the kanji and reading he did, and they specifically mean fire, rather than 炎 for flame. That's why I think it should be fire - or if you like, fireS. And like you, if I'm convinced about something, I tend to pursue it. I haven't really seen your reasons for choosing flame except that you consider them the same and like flame better - and since to me that's subjectivity, I guess I'm not convinced?
- I am very passionate about my Japanese, because I love the language as much as I do, and find all the little fiddly details fascinating. If I come over full on ever, that's the reason why. I just want to do my bit to help and make sure that the people using this site have the most accurate explanations possible (which I think, from your comments about Shishinrou on the T-C, is what you want too).
- I wonder if you'd consider me cheeky if I asked you what an advanced novice actually is? You seem more than a novice to me o.O. Vraieesprit (talk) 23:26, September 26, 2012 (UTC)
Okay, I'll try and explain my objections again and be as clear as I can.
FIRE vs FLAME
Fire: The state of combustion in which inflammable material burns, producing heat, flames and often smoke.
Flame: A hot, usually luminous body of burning gas often containing small, incandescent particles,typically emanating in flickering streams from burning material or produced by a jet of gas. Source: Collins English Dictionary (Third Edition, 1991)
Since fire produces flame, fire can't be flame. Flame is a component of fire. Clearly they're not the same thing. Flame also excludes smoke and ash, since they are not elements of flame, but they are elements or by-products of fire. They're also elements of Yama's Bankai. Also, if they were the exact same thing and synonymous, there wouldn't be two separate words for them in both English and in Japanese. But that is beside the point really.
In terms of jin, lets begin with ranks. Dictionary definition again:
Rank: a line of soldiers drawn up abreast of each other.
Now I'm familiar too with the term "in the ranks" (as in, among the soldiers), but this is essentially connected to "rank and file". I don't think Yama's jin can be translated as ranks. Ranks are ordered lines of soldiers. The dead are not ordered lines of anything.
Back to jin. As I said before, and as the Japanese dictionary link I sent you also shows, a jin is a military encampment. However, I'm not sure it's what you're thinking of - at least not in the pre-modern era. It's a place where soldiers set up camp and prepare for manoeuvre, and from which they sortie. In the image you saw from the Heike Monogatari, there's no "rank and file". Just like with our dead, the soldiers are advancing from their jin to confront the enemy, each almost certainly competing to be first in order to grab the glory. In Yama's case, the jin is more abstract - it's either the ground or the ashes or "death" or whatever you want to consider them rising up from.
In terms of 衣. Back to the dictionary.
Garb: clothes, esp. the distinctive attire of an occupation or a profession, eg clerical garb.
Robe: Any loose flowing garment, esp the official vestment of a peer, judge or academic.
Since prison is neither an occupation nor a profession, and since Rukia's example is good cultural and contextual evidence that prison clothing in SS comprises a 'loose, flowing garment', I would say that robe was the more logical translation in this instance.
That pretty much sums it up. Sorry for the very long post, but you did ask and I wanted to answer as thoroughly as possible :)Vraieesprit (talk) 01:05, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
-- To be honest, I've never heard of someone claiming that flame is "only one component" of fire.
The definition I already gave you of fire indicates flame is a component of fire, and you can verify it online here, Also, see
Clearly several dictionaries consider it a component of fire. These are, (with one exception), references from reputable sources which also print hard copy dictionaries, rather than yahoo.
Usually the on'yomi is only used in compounds like 火事, and Yama's sword is also a compound. 火 on its own is only KA when talking about the five elements. 火 as KA and as hi have different nuances. Japanese uses a lot of kanji with the same readings and rough meanings to imply specific nuance. You also see kanji glossed with different furigana to do the same thing. I think its logical to assume Kubo meant fire because he wrote fire and glossed it as fire. This is almost certainly to match Ryuujin JaKKA, and ZanKA no Tachi, in keeping with the most powerful FIRE type zanpakutou. Assuming he meant something else risks moving away from his original intent. We can only work with what he wrote.
- edited* It was bothering me how unhelpful my response on jin was, and that I'd only told you I didn't like yours instead of offering my own. So I came back to this after giving it some thought. Structurally [火火十万億死] qualifies [大葬陣]. We also now know that they are individuals Yama actively killed. [火火十万億死] seems best translated as "The Ten Trillion Fire Dead" for that reason.
Encampment generally involves location, but it can also be a collective for soldiers. I've verified this here. Encampment is not quite the same as camp, so not as static. I would therefore suggest the overall translation should be "The Great Burial/Buried/Funerary Encampment of the Ten Trillion Fire Dead." or if you prefer "Myriad/Countless Fire Dead" works just as well and sounds prettier.
This is the most accurate rendering of jin that we're going to get, and I think this overall translation sticks closest to the kanji Kubo used and the origin of the onryou Yama explained in 509.
"Garb: Clothes". There you go; whether it's used "especially" of this or that does not change the very fact that "garb/clothing/attire" is the most appropriate meaning.
- I would suggest that, if you want the meaning to be clothes, it's less ambiguous to just use "clothes" as your word. Garb carries other nuances, and if you don't like robe, I suggest clothes is a safer bet.Vraieesprit (talk) 09:34, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
You know what? I don't want to argue with you, and I'm really sick of this discussion too. It's not about who is right or wrong semantically, but really about the best translation for the people using the site.
I am going to therefore suggest a compromised translation which incorporates elements of both your convictions and mine. This is a serious request, so please consider it so.
That suggestion is "The Great Burial Ranks of the Countless Fire Dead"
I've kept your "great burial ranks" and your "countless", and incorporated my "fire dead" in light of Yama proving he's killed them with his fire. Ignoring the fire/flame debate completely for a minute, in 508 it looked as though the dead had come from flames, so I can understand why "dead of flames" made sense then. However, in this chapter he said he actively killed them, which, to me, makes them more "fire dead". Since grammatically you can't say "flame dead", fire dead makes more sense.
I am making this suggestion because I want the site to have the best translation, and I don't see any point in being at loggerheads and trying to prove each other wrong lexically when its the people using the site who really matter in all of this. I still don't like ranks, but I accept your explanation logic for using it. I hope you will also understand my logic for fire dead. Since you were the one who said you welcomed contributions, discussion and compromise, I thought that you might be content to settle this with a compromise, rather than turn it into a battle of who knows what best?
Translation is better done cooperatively, anyhow.
I don't really care if you want to take credit for the translation, since on this site you seem to have final call on these things anyhow. I just want to make sure the people using BleachWiki have the right translation. I want to be useful on this site, but being constantly knocked back is getting demoralising, so this is my last throw of the dice. Vraieesprit (talk) 22:21, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
Yay :) Then that's settled. You tell Salubri. He likes you better. :)
I hate debates like that too. Nobody really wins with them, so in future lets bypass them and go for the compromise route first and foremost ;) It'll save text space!
One thing I should mention - I noticed you spelt aesthetic without the a earlier, so I'm guessing you're from North America? In which case its best you know now I'm British, and that linguistic differences may arise as a result ;)
I did think seriously whether to remove myself from the translation corner this evening. I guess we'll see how things go. It has been a baptism of fire, but hopefully things will improve now people know I'm serious about my level of Japanese and can contribute properly.
P.S, seeing Salubri's message below, I actually own Unmasked...:)Vraieesprit (talk) 23:52, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
- Yes, this one got rather silly. I think disagreeing helps mutual understanding of things, but perhaps not to this extent. Though you can rest assured I have a pretty good vocabulary in English and Japanese, so don't worry too much about my understanding of words. I speak pretty good American too, having lived with an American for a year ;) I too am in favour of more gentle disagreement. Perhaps even negotiation...
- Thank you for mentioning it to Salubri. Hopefully he'll be agreeable. On this note too, you mentioned there you weren't sure about my level of Japanese in terms of wider translation work. I thought maybe it would be helpful to give an example so you could judge yourself? I've done a lot of song lyric translation, eg here on my own site Rakuen and here on another. These aren't within the last year, so mostly pre-university, but they give you some idea...?Vraieesprit (talk) 00:57, September 28, 2012 (UTC)
New Translation
Hey Adam i wondered if you and the others if possible could translate some of the pages on unmasked. I know you already did so but there is alot of information that we didn't get access to. I have the the link to a complete pages http://s330.photobucket.com/albums/l438/Kalik2k/Bleach%20UnMASKED/. There are certain pages that need to be translated not really the whole thing. Let Me know.--Salubri (Chat) 23:34,9/27/2012
- Translation change is fine and as far as the new translation if you want V to do it and then just come in as a consultant thats fine as well. Ill post what i need done on her talk page. Thanks.--Salubri (Chat) 00:46,9/28/2012
- After looking at it I have a problem with the (great burial ranks of the ten trillion fire dead), i know thats the translation as literal as you can do it, but im concerned that its not making the statement that is required. What i mean by that is that when you read it at least from a english point of view it doesnt make much sense. If the words were moved around to sound like idk something that makes sense. The fire dead at the end is really odd it seems. Like look at Urahara's page, i changed some of the zanpakuto techniques wording around to make them make more sense without changing the core concept. --Salubri (Chat) 01:02,9/28/2012
Forgotten Translations
You forgot the Shunsui question on the translation page as well as the question Marfq asked at the bottom.--Salubri (Chat) 18:45,12/14/2012
Translation
Hey adam just reminding you there is some translations issues going on. if u check the translation corner we have a obvious issue with unohana's bankai, if you can help that would be great.--Salubri (Chat) 01:22,2/19/2013
New Translation
Hey adam we have three new translations for you. Two are from the recent chapter 531 (release command and quincy terms) and there is one referring to Kaido you might wanna check out. Thanks Again.--Salubri (Chat) 01:47,3/28/2013