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"The Ichigo Kurosaki Riddle"

  • Now anyone familiar with the entire series is possibly noticing a pattern developing here with Ichigo. It seems that he is literally being written as the Swiss Army Knife of the series. If there is a power out there then he has it. Unlike everyone else in the series there is obvious issues with this being that Ichigo is now shown on one level or another to be some sort of Mimic or Copycat. What I mean by that is he has the powers but not the true nature. I give you these points.

    1.) Zanpakuto = Shinigami: Ichigo started out on this level. Whats telling is how he became a Shinigami. First by 'absorbing' most of Rukia's power, bam instant make shift Shinigami. Second by finding his own power, again bam instant make shift Shinigami. All upgrades in power based on sheer force of will. Losses power and then for the Third time like clock work, via special sword device bam instant make shift Shinigami. Notice all times he just becomes a Shingiami with a Zanpakuto already in hand. Now we find out from Oetsu, thats not how Shinigami get Zanpakuto, thus proving he was never a real Shinigami (stated as such in the manga itself). Now Oetsu knew this, Renji apparently and Isshin possibly Urahara as well. If you look at it you can say that the entire time in his role as a Shinigami he has been doing nothing but copying Isshin's natural Shingiami abilities at least via Zanpakuto. Similar names, Getsuga Tensho and then FGT that may have been used by Isshin before, mind you its only insinuated (due to his knowledge of it) in canon.

    2.) Hollow Mask = Visored: So granted this was already set up around the second time of Ichigo becoming a Shingiami but his happened doing something uncommon (Shattered Shaft Training) and thus quite naturally and thus far different then what the Visored themselves went through. Other then puttin on the mask he doesnt seem to be capable of the more prominent hollow abilities the masks allows. Granted Questionable at best.

    3.) Hollow Form = Hollow: Now apparently such a transformation is not unusual to the like of the Visored.

    4.) New Hollow Form = Arrancar: Now this one is the really nail in the coffin if you think about it. For all purposes this form came out of nowhere and had more in common with a Arrancar then a hollow as the original form did.

    5.) Fullbring = Fullbringer: Now we can rationalize up and down about how Ichigo has this power, but lets not forget in the manga itself he questions how he would even have a fullbring, literally no one answers the question they push forward with the innate knowledge that he obviously has one and everyone including chad knows that but Ichigo.

    6.) Quincy Power = Quincy: Ichigo displayed the use of Blut which is odd now all of the sudden after being around Uryu for like ever he suddenly activates a quincy power instinctively even though Uryu himself has never demonstrated such a power and the power seems to be exclusive to the Vandenreich. This is explained by his mother being a Quincy. Now There would be no problem with this if we hadnt already found out that Ichigo whose father is a Shinigami doesnt make Ichigo a Shinigami either. So what is he?

    Well best guess would be Isshin Shiba (Shinigami) + Masaki Kurosaki (Quincy) = Ichigo Kurosaki (Power Mimicry). You pull the two races together you have a variation of Rouge from the X-Men or Peter Petrelli from Heroes. It would seem far fetched but its the only thing that can explain the huge amount of instances where Ichigo has basically attained ever canon races core abilities. Now if there is another explanation I can concede to that just throwing the concept out there.

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    • Actually makes a lot of sense and not too hax at the same time.

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    • Concerning the Fullbring: Masaki was a Quincy before she and Isshin got married and made our favorite orange-haired protagonist, and we can assume that she fought her fair share of Hollows in her heyday. Now, Fullbringer's powers are brought about from their mothers being attacked by a Hollow(s), with trace amounts of the Hollow's power being retained in their body. As a Quincy, and presumably a strong Quincy (I figure Isshin likes a strong woman. He was Rangiku's boss, right?), Masaki was a beacon to all Hollows because of her nature, and she most likely sustained injuries during her some of her battles (unless she was like Satelizer L. Bridgette from Freezing, which I HIGHLY doubt). This would account for the Fullbringer aspect of Ichigo, short-lived as it may have been. In any case, that portion of Bleach required the reader to make inferences.

      Concerning the Visored, Hollow, and Arrancar powers: Yes, Yes, and huh, I never thought of it that way, but that makes sense. I assume with the Visored powers, some part of Urahara wanted Ichigo to become a Visored. Additionally, Ichigo was in a high stress situation (if I was going to turn into a demon and most likely be killed, I'd be freaking out too) like the other Visoreds (they sustained extreme injuries and Hollowfication was further brought on by stress ((probably Urahara's dream)), and who knows what else Aizen was doing behind the scenes). Urahara also wished that the process would not be incomplete for Shinji and co., considering he perfected their powers using the Hogyoku. Ichigo's case was brought on by his wish to defeat, not kill, his opponents, counteracting the Hollow nature, thus all the madness that ensued from that. (Hope that made sense)

      Concerning the Quincy Powers (Uryu's Knowledge): Let's remember that Uryu was trained by his grandfather Soken, and honestly, Soken wasn't up to date on the most recent Quincy toys (Blut, Vollstandig, Medallions). He gave Uryu the Sanrei Glove, which was considered archaic by Quilge Opie. Additionally, the Quincy probably spent decades, maybe centuries, to perfect their techniques. The wise man makes his activities very secretive so his enemy does not catch on to what he is doing. All the while, Uryu thinks that he is the last Quincy up till the Thousand Year Blood War (I'm still not sure what his connection to Vandenreich is, if he has one, but lets let Kubo spin his yarn a little longer) where we see and army of very well trained Quincy knock on Seireitei's door, slaughtering the Gotei 13 forces like they were helpless lambs. Point is, Uryu didn't have Blut because, in all likelihood, Soken did not know about it, or he did and he never taught it to Uryu. In the latter case, Soken could have been at odds with Juhabach and did not condone those techniques or whatever. We can theorize to Soul Society and back, but the point is, Uryu probably didn't know about it when he was younger. Additionally, it seems Blut is a highly advanced technique that requires an exorbitant amount of spirit energy to use and regulate (enter Ichigo).

      Concerning the Quincy Powers (Ichigo's Aspect): Ichigo's powers (aside from the Final Getsuga Tensho) were all brought on by training and discipline (read as sheer force and will). Blut could be the same way in that Masaki could have known Blut when she was alive.

      Concerning Ichigo's species: Yes, Ichigo retains the Core abilities of Shinigami, Visoreds, and Quincy (it would seem that Blut has become a core ability within Quincy), more so on the Shinigami aspect than anything else. Ichigo has a Shikai and a Bankai, he had a Hollow mask (I admit that he may still have his Hollow powers, but for explanation's sake, let's just say he had those powers), and he has Blut Vene as a defense mechanism (let's say stress and his mother watching over him). If we outline his attributes, he is 1/2 Human/Quincy, and 1/2 Shinigami. The Visored and Fullbringer powers are subsets of additional power, and since Quincy are inherently Human, he is not separately 1/4 Human and 1/4 Quincy or something like that. Ichigo Shiba-Kurosaki is a Human/Shinigami hybrid with subsets of Quincy, Fullbringer, and Visored powers. Charted out, it would look like this:

      • Human
        • Quincy
        • Fullbringer (More Human than Hollow)
      • Shinigami
        • Vasto Lorde-level Visored (1. Ulquiorra was most likely a Vasto Lorde, and Ichigo's Full Hollowfication produced Vasto Lorde-like abilities. 2. Visoreds are more Shinigami than Hollow even in a Full Hollowfied state. Ichigo, Kensei, and Mashiro reverted to their Shinigami states when calmed down/had their powers disrupted)

      I suppose had Ichigo not lost his powers the first time, he never would have gotten his Visored powers from the Shattered Shaft training, and if he never used Mugetsu, he would not have needed to unlock his Fullbringer abilities even though they were always a path for him to take. Since in all cases, except the Fullbringer aspect, he never received real formal training to master the more complex abilities of Shinigami, Quincy, or Visoreds (the Ceros he fired were in an unconscious Hollowfied state, so he really had no control over them).

      So yeah, It's still the same since Volume 21. Ichigo is a Human/Shinigami hybrid.

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    • Wow, Ichigo have too much power. He is a Gary Stu. Can't wait to see his new power form. Will he look like a Quincy, Soul Reader again or a new different form.

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    • Oh whatever, Sleeplessnight. If Ichigo didn't have all that power, he would have been killed by the Vandenreich without putting up a decent fight. Bleach isn't finished yet. There are still many things that have to be resolved, so let's just wait and see.

      Nice cover-up. To those who just jumped in, before, the person before me had just "Wow, Ichigo have too much power. He is a Gary Stu." hence my above response.

      His new form will most likely be an amalgamation of a Shinigami and Quincy (think Uryu in Letzt Stil). Course, I'm not Kubo, so I'm just speculating.

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    • I still think dividing the three Hollow-related forms is a stretch. The Visored already have Hollow masks by definition, and there really isn't any relation between the new Hollow form and Arrancar, asides from some vague aesthetics. For all intents and purposes, all of the forms exist for the same reason, being Hollow Ichigo.

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    • In response to you, Narutokurosaki547, I think you maybe missing the point of the blog.

      1.) Fullbring, by your logic any quincy or shinigami through their nature of being what they are would fight and be injured by Hollow, and therefore any in that situation would potentially have children with fullbring. That assumes alot that cant be determined and considering ichigo was never ment to keep such powers (according to kubo) to assume he fits in the catagory that kugo describes for origin can be no more then an assumption which was never resolved, so i dont know what your talking about saying it was recently. Also Silver platter dig wasnt necessary, your not dealing with 10yr olds here.

      2.) Im not sure the last time you read about the incident during the shattered shaft training but besides setting up the training conditions urahara had no role in ichigo gaining a inner hollow, it was a accidental situation. Ichigo had no control over it and in fact such a thing was unlikely. What was known as possible was that he would either come out hollow or shinigami depending on if he was powerful enough to awaken his shinigami powers or falling to encrouchment.

      3.) Quincy. You missed the whole point. Fact is uryu is born and raised quincy regardless of what quincy powers he is or isnt capable of what is fact is that ichigo would be capable of an ability unique to a quincy with no knowledge or understanding of it. When the one example of a quincy we have had for years has not shown such an ability and more importantly has never given evidence that Quincy abilities are anything more then learned and not instinctual. Granted new territoy and much is being made up on the fly, but just cause of who his mother was doesnt mean he automatically goes around doing reishi manipulation and creating spirit bows and arrows.

      3.) Vasto Lorde Visored. Wow i havent seen someone type out that lvl of op fanfiction in years. Really what designation was there ever remotely given like that and more importantly what class a hollow may be has no bearing on the level of power of his/her opponent. What are Vasto lorde type abilities; never remotely read anything like that. Also for point of reference its stated multiple times in the manga ichigo is not a shinigami it is affirmed he is not all human hence the quincy issue. Either way thank you for totally ignoring the point of the blog in its entirity.

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    • Narutokurosaki547 wrote:

        • Vasto Lorde-level Visored

      This is hilarious

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    • I know right, its been some time simce i read something like that, priceless.

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    • Salubri, let me address each issue as you presented it:

      1.) First, let's put the constant that all the Fullbringers in Bleach have/had Human mothers. The children of any Shinigami women would most likely become Shinigami themselves since that seems to be the primary course of action for individuals in Soul Society who have high levels of spirit energy. Also, yes, Ichigo was not meant to keep his Fullbring. That was obvious when Ginjo stabbed Ichigo, stealing his powers. When I said the issue of Ichigo having a Fullbring being resolved, I meant that Ichigo having a Fullbring after his mother was attacked by a Hollow AFTER he was born didn't make sense. Since his mother was a Quincy, it makes sense now how Ichigo got his Fullbring powers because Masaki would have most likely been injured by a Hollow at one point in her life.

      2.) Aizen stated that Urahara's desire was the shatter the boundaries between Shinigami and Hollows. The Hogyoku read and acted upon this, creating the Visoreds out of Shinji and co. Even after all that time in the world of the Living, it's conceivable that Urahara still desired that. Yes, Ichigo's main problem in Shattered Shaft was whether he'd become a Hollow or a Shinigami, but it's not too far-fetched to infer that the partial transformation into a Hollow created Hollow Ichigo.

      3.) The point I was trying to make was that Masaki's knowledge of Blut, and I don't mean head knowledge, I meant DNA knowledge, was passed on to Ichigo, and it lay dormant in him. With Juhabach stabbing Ichigo in the neck, that would have activated a self-defense mechanism, which would have awakened Blut Vene. It's not a perfect theory, but it's the best I can come up with.

      I assume you meant 4.) There are different levels of Menos Grande. And it was shown that Grimmjow was an Adjuchas prior to becoming an Espada, and I can assume he only got stronger until that time seeing as how his Fracciones leveled off after Grimmjow consumed them. Also, Tier Halibel was shown to be a Vasto Lorde in the anime, and that episode did not really conflict with the manga. It's safe to say that Starrk, Barragan, Halibel, and Ulquiorra were all Vasto Lordes prior to becoming Espadas. My statement of Ichigo being a Vasto Lorde-level Visored stemmed from what I read in Volume 41 where he was tearing Ulquiorra apart (literally) after going into a Full Hollowfication. Since it was technically a part of Ichigo's Visored nature, that's why I stated his power as a "Vasto Lorde-level Visored"

      Now, if it does come up that Ichigo is an entirely new type of being, then let it happen. Otherwise, I'm simply providing other speculation as to what Ichigo is. I think the Mimicry theory is actually very sound as to what has been written in the series.

      I do apologize for the "Silver Platter Dig". That was very rude of me. However, I think that your "Thank you for totally ignoring the point of this blog in its entirity" bit was equally as offensive. Since you are an admin on this Wiki, I actually expected someone who was characterized by a calm and collected nature who could handle those who act out of turn.

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    • Hes just one of natures drunken mishaps im afraid. Like the Platypus..

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    • or the Echidna

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    • Ichigo, in my honest opinion, is THEE biggest "marry-sue" I have ever come across. Honestly, he just gets more and more overpowered. Recently I found out that he's PART QUINCY. The heck?

      I can see why the anime has stopped being aired.

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    • So he's basically the Bleach equivalent of Inuyasha's sword in Human form. Seems legit.

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    • Yeah at this point with Ichigo inexplicably having some powers, or gaining new Hollow Forms, its *almost* like he is a race all on his own!! Even Oetsu seems shocked by his ability to gain a Zanpakuto of his own, something he states nobody else has done!! So at this point Ichigo is an enigma!! He seems to see a power and is convinced by someone else he has the same power himself!!

      (does this mean Kugo stole a basic sword too?? Since nobody else has achieved powers without one??)

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    • Well a Quincy create weapons by absorbing and manipulating spiritual energy. So theoretically all different attacks by various species of bleach are the same, but are modified in some way. I have another theory but I then to think it out through.

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    • good article sir. yep, if ichigo has quincy power, then it makes sense he can create a "zanpakuto" himself, like quincy makes their own bows and arrows. ichigo makes a "sword", not like seele schneider though. this "zanpaschneider" can have soul like zanpakutou, so there is the zangetsu. the zangetsu maybe just a virtualization of ichigo's quincy power mixed with shinigami power... -_- --ah i'm talking nonsense--

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    • I have a really crazy theory…Ichigo is the Hogyoku…well sort of, just hear me out on this. The objective of Aizen's Hogyoku is to use it in order to become a transcendent being. The Hogyoku manipulates the power of the souls absorbed into it in order to become a being that can become and withstand any form of power. Many powers of different species in bleach are very similar in form and power, yet they are different. If a being could somehow manipulate the different styles of reishi in an attack, theoretically they would be a transcendent being. My super whacked out theory is that Aizen's attempts at an artificial hogyoku failed so he theorized a way to create one naturally, and Aizen intended to absorb Ichigo's powers and become a true transcendent being, which is what I think he meant by "I will eat you." In other words, Ichigo was Aizen's Guinea pig, and if you have read all of this insanity then I congratulate you.

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    • Lemurs, your theories have been getting crazier and crazier. Are you sure you are still sane at this point?

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    • At what point did you think she was sane?

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    • There are people who think she's sane?

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    • You have known me how long and just NOW you are questioning my sanity?

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    • Fair point. I should say, are you sure you have not reached a new level of insanity?

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    • I have become a transcendent being.

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    • I think she's now creating new levels of insanity, god

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    • Also since a hacker wipped BA of the face of the Internet (I guess they will try to restart) someone must make up for the lack of crazy.

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    • I like it.

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    • ...Lemurs, be crazy, but not THAT kind of crazy.

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    • Don't worry my crazy will have merit.

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    • Xil, the world needs crazy

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    • Also sal be more specific do you like that (a) BA is wiped out (b) My craziness (c) My theory or (d) all of the above ;)

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    • D

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    • The world needs Lemurs' brand of crazy, which tastes like chocolate fudge, not BA's brand of crazy, which tastes like burning. And stupid theories.

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    • They're not stupid, they just...defy logic!

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    • This whole thing makes a lot of sense now that i think about it

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    • The Super Hollow form was actually foreshadowed by Hichigo ("when one is dominated by life, he is flesh; when one is dominated by death, he becomes bones" or something along those lines), not to mention him always saying that if Ichigo dies, it'll be a problem for him. Also, Hichigo is his instinct personified. So when Ulquiorra killed Ichigo for the second time and Orihime was calling for help, his deepest desire to protect and destroy awakened, and Hichigo emerged at full power. Plus, there's also the fact Ichigo is stronger than the Visoreds because they are, in Aizen's words, "failed mock arrancars". His experiments on Shinji and others were only a partial success; somehow, Urahara's Shattered Shaft method proved better.

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    • I'd classify Ichigo as a Quincy with Soul Reaper powers (or just a Quincy with a zanpakuto). Or maybe being a child of a Soul Reaper and a Quincy alone is enough to be a Mega Man. Whatever the case, he doesn't have his Fullbring anymore, and Hichigo is most likely history, too... Two problems less, only Quincy and Soul Reaper powers to worry about.

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    • I really hope you're right, Will. Dealing with Shinigami and Quincy aspects is much easier than Shinigami, Quincy, and Hollow.

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    • Salubri wrote: ...Ichigo is now shown on one level or another to be some sort of Mimic or Copycat. What I mean by that is he has the powers but not the true nature.

      It would seem far fetched but its the only thing that can explain the huge amount of instances where Ichigo has basically attained ever canon races core abilities. Now if there is another explanation I can concede to that just throwing the concept out there.

      I love this idea, but I think I have another possible explanation: ability creation. If Ichigo has the ability to create spiritual techniques/abilities/powers then he would seem to be just a copy cat. He could create "fake powers" that would seem to be imperfect copies, however instead of simply absorbing another power and making it his own he would really be recreating the power. That is why his powers would be imperfect; he hasn't yet realized his own power. Since he is doing all this subconsciously he would be unable to perfectly replicate other' people's powers. I think that this is a more likely explanation, because it would make Ichigo's power complementary and opposite Orihime's. Orihime has the ability to reject/destroy things. Ichigo would have the ability to accept/create things. Orihime can use her powers to form a barrier against a technique, or return the victim to its original state afterwords. Ichigo would instead create a copy of the technique to beat it, or create a copy of an opposite technique in order to neutralize it.

      The only way in which my explanation would be different than Salubri's would be that once Ichigo learns the full extent of his powers he would be able to create new techniques that weren't quincy or shinigami or hollow techniques. They would be original and unique only to him.

      I also thought of another example of Ichigo copying (or if I'm right recreating) a technique. Remember how he learned flash step? He basically saw Byakuya use it, and then he later spontaneously "learned" flash step during his bankai training.

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    • Lemursrule wrote: Also since a hacker wipped BA of the face of the Internet (I guess they will try to restart) someone must make up for the lack of crazy.

      So that's why I can't access the website! Wow things make more sense now. Could someone kindly tell me when they get a new site up and running?

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    • Balsalom wrote:

      I also thought of another example of Ichigo copying (or if I'm right recreating) a technique. Remember how he learned flash step? He basically saw Byakuya use it, and then he later spontaneously "learned" flash step during his bankai training.

      Ichigo could also have an advanced learning capacity, both physically and mentally. That would explain the Shunpo and his Bankai (He learned it in 2 days), and possibly his Blut powers.

      As far as the Blut goes, the reishi flows directly in a Quincy's circulatory system. If Quilge's Jail that imprisoned Ichigo was made of the reishi, or at least part of that reishi, in Quilge's blood, Ichigo could have "absorbed" the Blut technique when he finally broke Quilge's jail.

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    • Narutokurosaki547 wrote: I really hope you're right, Will. Dealing with Shinigami and Quincy aspects is much easier than Shinigami, Quincy, and Hollow.

      Ichigo is not a shinigami quincy hybrid. His father was no longer a shinigami at the time he and Misaki conceived Ichigo. This was stated in almost every translation of the chapter, and it is not physically possible for Ichigo to be part shinigami because A) A shinigami is a human soul and it would not be physically possible for a soul to have sexual intercourse with a living human and B) As stated before during the start of the arrancar arc, it was stated that Isshin had lost his powers 20 years ago. At that point of the series Ichigo was 16 years old, therefore there is no way Isshin could have been in Shinigami form, have sexual intercourse with Misaki and have his son inherit some of his spiritual abilities. All of Ichigo's powers are inherited from his mother, end of story.

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    • Salubri
      Salubri removed this reply because:
      not on topic
      13:40, March 9, 2013
      This reply has been removed

      Just sayin', but I agree with everything Narutokuroskai547. He's also been one of the politest here, and remained on topic.

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    • make sense

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    • Lemursrule wrote:

      Narutokurosaki547 wrote: I really hope you're right, Will. Dealing with Shinigami and Quincy aspects is much easier than Shinigami, Quincy, and Hollow.

      Ichigo is not a shinigami quincy hybrid. His father was no longer a shinigami at the time he and Misaki conceived Ichigo. This was stated in almost every translation of the chapter, and it is not physically possible for Ichigo to be part shinigami because A) A shinigami is a human soul and it would not be physically possible for a soul to have sexual intercourse with a living human and B) As stated before during the start of the arrancar arc, it was stated that Isshin had lost his powers 20 years ago. At that point of the series Ichigo was 16 years old, therefore there is no way Isshin could have been in Shinigami form, have sexual intercourse with Misaki and have his son inherit some of his spiritual abilities. All of Ichigo's powers are inherited from his mother, end of story.

      Then how do you explain Ichigo has Zangetsu's spirit in his inner world, as well as his own Soul Reaper powers?

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    • Will-O-Wisp wrote:

      Lemursrule wrote:

      Narutokurosaki547 wrote: I really hope you're right, Will. Dealing with Shinigami and Quincy aspects is much easier than Shinigami, Quincy, and Hollow.

      Ichigo is not a shinigami quincy hybrid. His father was no longer a shinigami at the time he and Misaki conceived Ichigo. This was stated in almost every translation of the chapter, and it is not physically possible for Ichigo to be part shinigami because A) A shinigami is a human soul and it would not be physically possible for a soul to have sexual intercourse with a living human and B) As stated before during the start of the arrancar arc, it was stated that Isshin had lost his powers 20 years ago. At that point of the series Ichigo was 16 years old, therefore there is no way Isshin could have been in Shinigami form, have sexual intercourse with Misaki and have his son inherit some of his spiritual abilities. All of Ichigo's powers are inherited from his mother, end of story.

      Then how do you explain Ichigo has Zangetsu's spirit in his inner world, as well as his own Soul Reaper powers?

      Okay people really really really really really really need to get this straight. Ichigo did not inherit any Shinigami powers from his father. None whatsoever. Isshin lost all of his powers 20 years ago, making him not a Shinigami. If a person is not a Shinigami, they cannot pass on Shinigami powers to their child. Ichigo is not the son of a Quincy and a Shinigami, he is the son of a Quincy and a Soul residing in a gigai, making him little more than Human.

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    • Will-O-Wisp wrote:

      Then how do you explain Ichigo has Zangetsu's spirit in his inner world, as well as his own Soul Reaper powers?

      We don't know exactly why and how Ichigo had/has an inner world, it's up to Kubo to give us an explanation. My theory and a theory of many others is that Ichigo unintentionally used the Quincy abilities he inherited from his mother to manipulate reshi in a way that he could mimick the powers of another being such as a shinigami.

      The reality is Ichigo never was a real Shingami, and people just need to accept the fact that Kubo, always intended Ichigo to be a human and face the fact that the shinigami are not the center of the story, they are just merely and aspect of it. Yes, the shinigami still are relevant to an extent, but their relevance has no bearing on Ichigo's powers and his place it the story. Bleach is the story of Ichigo, not the the story of the shinigami and Ichigo or vice virsa. The Shinigami are just secondary characters and the sooner people understand that, the more they will enjoy the story and that is a gurentee.

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    • Lemursrule wrote:

      Will-O-Wisp wrote:

      Then how do you explain Ichigo has Zangetsu's spirit in his inner world, as well as his own Soul Reaper powers?

      We don't know exactly why and how Ichigo had/has an inner world, it's up to Kubo to give us an explanation. My theory and a theory of many others is that Ichigo unintentionally used the Quincy abilities he inherited from his mother to manipulate reshi in a way that he could mimick the powers of another being such as a shinigami.

      I don't think it is anything difficult to explain. Ichigo is not a Shinigami, but his soul form is. He doesn't need to have inherited powers from Isshin to be a Shinigami in soul form. He specifically underwent training with Urahara to turn him into a Shinigami. That was the point of shattered shaft. Urahara even stated that he had his own latent Shinigami powers. Though I suppose it is time I gave my own views on all of this.

      I think there is a simple explanation to all of Ichigo's powers, though some came around purely to help the plot.

      First and foremost, his Shinigami powers are the basis of the story. When Nimaiya and Isshin say he is not a Shinigami, I take that as he is a Human who has the powers of a Shinigami in soul form. He is not a Shinigami in his natural state nor was he born to a Shinigami as so many people think. Since he had a large amount of spiritual power, Urahara recognized that he could become a Shnigami if he underwent the proper training. I don't think he is mimicking Shinigami powers, thats his own natural power.

      His Hollow powers came about as a consequence of Shattered Shaft training. He took too long, causing a Hollow mask to form. His two hollow forms are just him losing control over these powers and his inner Hollow taking over. The new form developed due to Bankai. Ichigo had never entered his Hollow form in Bankai before and we have seen Hollow Ichigo looks different when Ichigo is in Bankai.

      His Fullbringer powers are much easier to explain now. Whereas before I had believed it was due to Hollow Ichigo, it is now pretty easy to see its because Masaki had been attacked by many Hollows before, being that she was a Quincy.

      And of course his Quincy powers are from his mother.

      I don't think he is any kind of mimic. He has several powers for the sake of the story, but they are all explainable.

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    • @Lemursrule OR it could be that he does have shinigami powers, they just haven't awakened yet.

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    • No, unless Isshin had some special shinigami sperm at the soul sperm bank, there is no way Ichigo can have authentic shinigami abilities. His powers are possibly from either his mother's spiritual abilities he inherited, or as Godisme pointed out, Ichigo recieved some of his powers in Bizare, but logical circumstances.

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    • And now all he needs is his own Shun Shun Rika.

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    • Kamikaze839
      Kamikaze839 removed this reply because:
      Language
      15:48, March 10, 2013
      This reply has been removed

      ok bitch

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    • Okay, okay, okay, okay. Okay, to roughly sum-things up (please correct me if im wrong) so we know (somewhat) what Ichigo is, he is a human (quincy i suppose) who acquired shinigami powers and hollow powers due to Urahara to use only in his soul state, mainly. He "inherited" his quincy powers from his quincy mother. Fullbring also "stemmed" from his mother, due to her fighting hollow. Sure, Ichigo's shinigami powers never came from his father, then why are their Zanpakuto so similar? In both powers and name? Ouetsu said, well.. hinted Ichigo more or less made his own zanpakuto right? So how, would that work out? The whole Zangetsu things has gotten weird to me now. Seems like Zangetsu is as much a "biological" abomination as Ichigo is.

      Ichigo seems to me, a living, breathing, independant Gigai with Quincy powers and the soul of some odd shinigami thing?

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    • Oh quick thing? In chapter 528 Ikumi saw Ichigo's substitute badge, i thought only spiritual aware beings could see it? Say im wrong, but i think shes more than she appears!

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    • Skitzo1 wrote: Oh quick thing? In chapter 528 Ikumi saw Ichigo's substitute badge, i thought only spiritual aware beings could see it? Say im wrong, but i think shes more than she appears!

      Ikumi could see it for the same reason Tatsuki could see it at one point. After spending so much time with spiritual beings, a little of the spiritual pressure seems to rub off on them, hence why late in the series, Tatsuki, Keigo, and Mizuiro could all see Aizen and Zennosuke.

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    • People really seem to have a hard time understanding that fact that Ichigo didn't get his powers from his father; I blame the fact that they haven't been reading.

      Ichigo is a Quincy in human form, and a Soul Reaper in soul form. Simple.

      What exactly was that butter blade Ichigo had if it wasn't the basic sword all Shinigami's possess? (Granted, we still don't know how they are formed in the first place clearly enough). As we all know, that blade possessed alot of spirit energy, but was horribly unstable, so unstable that it was slashed to pieces w/o effort. I think that could be used to help (us) out.

      And also, I believe Chad once mentioned in the Anime (and perhaps Manga?) that "Ichigo's nature... Is to be cloaked in power."

      It might be just me, but I think that explains alot more than meets the eye. But if it was only in the anime, then I think its not canon to the manga.

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    • I'm starting to think Ichigo's a Gary Stu.....

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    • BleachAndNarutoAreEqual wrote: I'm starting to think Ichigo's a Gary Stu.....

      I do not think that means what you think it means.....
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    • Mohrpheus wrote:

      BleachAndNarutoAreEqual wrote: I'm starting to think Ichigo's a Gary Stu.....

      I do not think that means what you think it means.....

      A Gary Stu? THAT'S INCONCEIVABLE!

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    • Redhollow wrote: Ichigo is a Quincy in human form, and a Soul Reaper in soul form. Simple.

      Actually, Ichigo used Blut when he was in his Soul Reaper form.

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    • Lets not forget his Hell Form guys. While he could have easily lost it when he lost his powers, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I kinda wanna see a free-for-all within Ichigo's soul between him, his zanpaktou, his hollow, his quincy and his hell form.

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    • KingoSwing wrote: Lets not forget his Hell Form guys. While he could have easily lost it when he lost his powers, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I kinda wanna see a free-for-all within Ichigo's soul between him, his zanpaktou, his hollow, his quincy and his hell form.

      Hell Verse is not canon.
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    • Mohrpheus wrote:

      KingoSwing wrote: Lets not forget his Hell Form guys. While he could have easily lost it when he lost his powers, I'm keeping my fingers crossed. I kinda wanna see a free-for-all within Ichigo's soul between him, his zanpaktou, his hollow, his quincy and his hell form.

      Hell Verse is not canon.

      One can dream

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    • Explanation for Ichigo's Shinigami powers. Quincy manipulate Reishi. Rukia put Shinigami Reiatsu in Ichigo, though it was temporary. Maybe Ichigo subconsciously used Quincy techniques on the Reiatsu that Rukia gave him? He normally wouldn't be able to manipulate it, but that could be different in his case since Rukia basically shoved the Reiatsu down his throat. Then maybe his powers adapted to the process of manipulating Reiatsu and Reiryoku, and Ichigo started doing the same to his own Spiritual Power? Hence, making a "Spirit Weapon" out of his own Reiatsu = making a zanpakuto, without an Asauchi base.

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    • Fatdude wrote: Explanation for Ichigo's Shinigami powers. Quincy manipulate Reishi. Rukia put Shinigami Reiatsu in Ichigo, though it was temporary. Maybe Ichigo subconsciously used Quincy techniques on the Reiatsu that Rukia gave him? He normally wouldn't be able to manipulate it, but that could be different in his case since Rukia basically shoved the Reiatsu down his throat. Then maybe his powers adapted to the process of manipulating Reiatsu and Reiryoku, and Ichigo started doing the same to his own Spiritual Power? Hence, making a "Spirit Weapon" out of his own Reiatsu = making a zanpakuto, without an Asauchi base.

      That might be one of the most plausible explanations I've heard so far in light of recent information. Guess we won't really know until Kubo decides to stop trolling his readers.

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    • Fatdude wrote: Explanation for Ichigo's Shinigami powers. Quincy manipulate Reishi. Rukia put Shinigami Reiatsu in Ichigo, though it was temporary. Maybe Ichigo subconsciously used Quincy techniques on the Reiatsu that Rukia gave him? He normally wouldn't be able to manipulate it, but that could be different in his case since Rukia basically shoved the Reiatsu down his throat. Then maybe his powers adapted to the process of manipulating Reiatsu and Reiryoku, and Ichigo started doing the same to his own Spiritual Power? Hence, making a "Spirit Weapon" out of his own Reiatsu = making a zanpakuto, without an Asauchi base.

      I think it's safe to say Ichigo's Quincy powers had been asleep all his life, until he met Yhwach (how the **** do you pronounce that?!), because Ishida would've been able to identify him as a Quincy otherwise. Remember the red ribbon thing every Soul Reaper has? That's how Ishida recognized Ichigo was one. A Soul Reaper, not a Quincy. Ichigo definitely has Soul Reaper powers that were his own since he was born. They are the ones Byakuya failed to destroy when they first met - they are Zangetsu. How he can NOT be a Soul Reaper while he definitely has that eludes me. Well, Ichigo's case is rather unique itself. If it does really turn out he unwittingly used Quincy powers to shape a zanpakuto, I'll be very disappointed.

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    • Will-O-Wisp wrote: I think it's safe to say Ichigo's Quincy powers had been asleep all his life, until he met Yhwach (how the **** do you pronounce that?!), because Ishida would've been able to identify him as a Quincy otherwise. Remember the red ribbon thing every Soul Reaper has? That's how Ishida recognized Ichigo was one. A Soul Reaper, not a Quincy. Ichigo definitely has Soul Reaper powers that were his own since he was born. They are the ones Byakuya failed to destroy when they first met - they are Zangetsu. How he can NOT be a Soul Reaper while he definitely has that eludes me. Well, Ichigo's case is rather unique itself. If it does really turn out he unwittingly used Quincy powers to shape a zanpakuto, I'll be very disappointed.

      Wait, when did they start calling him Yhwach? I thought it was Juhabach.

      Anyway, that's not the important part. It seems that both you and Fatdude could be right in your own ways. Ichigo definitely did seem to have Shinigami powers from the start, hence Zangetsu's very existence as a spirit. But the fact that Masaki was a Quincy also plays a part in it. That large sword he had in the beginning, which ended up being Zangetsu's sealed state, was most likely created by the power transfer from Rukia in the beginning. However, when Urahara was helping him regain the majority of his powers, something had to help turn that broken hilt into the permanent-Shikai Zangetsu we all are so familiar with. This is where, at least how I see it, his latent Quincy powers come into play. Creating a sword from nearly nothing would be almost impossible without some form of Reishi manipulation, controlled or not.

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    • Well Ichigo has a Hallow State and Zanguestu state he has several power only cause he the main character now considering he a Quincy it gonna be a new era for bleach

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    • All I have to say is this: Ichigo Kurosaki, what in the world are you??? Is this what inspire Aizen to conduct his hollow/soul reaper reseacrh? Who here thinks that?

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    • I'm sure the head captain knew what Ichigo was. Since the whole full bringer arch issues, I think its clear that the Shinigami have seen this before. But it remains a secret I suppose because Ichigo seems to dislike asking questions >___>

      So, (because honestly, I didn't research the Kujo (?) too much. He was a substitute Shinigami that had a full bring? Idk...)

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    • Redhollow wrote:

      And also, I believe Chad once mentioned in the Anime (and perhaps Manga?) that "Ichigo's nature... Is to be cloaked in power."

      Like how nobody commented on that point.

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    • Arrancar109
      Arrancar109 removed this reply because:
      comment was off-topic and addresses something not related to the discussion
      06:41, March 13, 2013
      This reply has been removed

      We really should make sure that the page fixes up the problem about his family then...

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    • I like Salubri's idea of Ichigo being a power mimic rather then any one thing. A unique power like that tracks well if you consider the Hogyoku granted Ichigo his wish ('I want to become more powerful'). The fact Orihime also expressed a unique power because of the Hogyoku lends support to it. So Ichigo is really not of any race and his parents' lineages also become irrelevant (except perhaps with gifting him an abnormally high spirit pressure).

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    • I like Salubri's idea as well. That could also be a great explanation. But I think that rather than Quincy and Shinigami having power-mimic children, it would be much simply and maybe more likely that it was because of the Hogyoku. Like Great Cthulhu said, Ichigo wanted to become more powerful, and the ability to mimic any given power/ability would be just the thing to fulfill that desire. There are many different possibilities though, and we'll just have to wait and see.

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    • look at Ichigo's new bankai & then look at the hands of the hollow his dad battled & you will see how much they look alike. that hollow could very well be zangetsu & while on this zangetsu & hollow Ichigo are the same person. when gaining F.G.T. zangetsu & hollow Ichigo fused together and looked like the hollow Isshin battled minus the coat

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    • Well...... if he has every ability, then what about the Bounts? Why doesn't Ichigo have something like that, or those swords from the Amagai Arc?

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    • ChibiVampirePanda wrote: Well...... if he has every ability, then what about the Bounts? Why doesn't Ichigo have something like that, or those swords from the Amagai Arc?

      He has/had every power from the canon arcs. The arcs you mentioned are filler arcs and therefore aren't canon. In other words, he has the power of all major species in the manga

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    • Kamikaze839 wrote:

      ChibiVampirePanda wrote: Well...... if he has every ability, then what about the Bounts? Why doesn't Ichigo have something like that, or those swords from the Amagai Arc?

      He has/had every power from the canon arcs. The arcs you mentioned are filler arcs and therefore aren't canon. In other words, he has the power of all major species in the manga

      He doesn't have Shun Shun Rikka or the two Brazos.

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    • Schiffy wrote:

      Kamikaze839 wrote:

      ChibiVampirePanda wrote: Well...... if he has every ability, then what about the Bounts? Why doesn't Ichigo have something like that, or those swords from the Amagai Arc?

      He has/had every power from the canon arcs. The arcs you mentioned are filler arcs and therefore aren't canon. In other words, he has the power of all major species in the manga

      He doesn't have Shun Shun Rikka or the two Brazos.

      Major species as in: Fullbring, Quincy, Shinigami, Hollow, etc. The two brazos are a type Fullbring powers, and Ichigo had Fullbring. Orihime's powers are way too unique for anyone else to have

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    • Makes enough sense. I had no idea that the Bount arc was filler though....

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    • Any arc that is not in the manga is filler

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    • Kamikaze839 wrote:

      Schiffy wrote:

      Kamikaze839 wrote:

      ChibiVampirePanda wrote: Well...... if he has every ability, then what about the Bounts? Why doesn't Ichigo have something like that, or those swords from the Amagai Arc?

      He has/had every power from the canon arcs. The arcs you mentioned are filler arcs and therefore aren't canon. In other words, he has the power of all major species in the manga

      He doesn't have Shun Shun Rikka or the two Brazos.

      Major species as in: Fullbring, Quincy, Shinigami, Hollow, etc. The two brazos are a type Fullbring powers, and Ichigo had Fullbring. Orihime's powers are way too unique for anyone else to have

      PLus i think they came from him, didin't they?

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    • Justin Holland wrote: PLus i think they came from him, didin't they?

      I thought that they came from the Hogyoku. That's what Aizen said.

      Orihime Inoue

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    • Fatdude wrote:

      Justin Holland wrote: PLus i think they came from him, didin't they?

      I thought that they came from the Hogyoku. That's what Aizen said.

      Orihime Inoue

      Didn't her powers also say that by being around ichigo they manage to gain them as well?

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    • Justin Holland wrote:

      Fatdude wrote:

      Justin Holland wrote: PLus i think they came from him, didin't they?

      I thought that they came from the Hogyoku. That's what Aizen said.

      Orihime Inoue

      Didn't her powers also say that by being around ichigo they manage to gain them as well?

      I guess it's unexplained how she got them exactly, then.

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    • Sometimes these debates about how, who, what, where, and why are fairly pointless where Bleach is concerned. Kubo himself does much of his writing on the fly and often changes things around to suit his current storyline. It takes a fair degree of stupid to become to attached to any one 'explanation'.

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    • Great Cthulhu wrote: Sometimes these debates about how, who, what, where, and why are fairly pointless where Bleach is concerned. Kubo himself does much of his writing on the fly and often changes things around to suit his current storyline. It takes a fair degree of stupid to become to attached to any one 'explanation'.

      We just enjoy discussing it. No need to call anyone 'stupid'.

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    • Great Cthulu, this is a warning. Do not call people stupid. Fans are free to discuss their theories as they wish. Thats part of being a fan.

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    • Fatdude wrote: We just enjoy discussing it. No need to call anyone 'stupid'.

      Not calling anyone stupid. Not really. I get hung up on it too from time to time. Its just a fact that Kubo's storytelling isn't always big on continuity.

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    • Great Cthulhu wrote:

      Fatdude wrote: We just enjoy discussing it. No need to call anyone 'stupid'.

      Not calling anyone stupid. Not really. I get hung up on it too from time to time. Its just a fact that Kubo's storytelling isn't always big on continuity.

      He's got a point. We're talking about Kubo here. No one is stupid for doing such, it's just that the action in and of itself is fairly foolish.

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    • Great Cthulhu
      Great Cthulhu removed this reply because:
      Provided a better explanation and apology post downstream in the thread. This one is inappropriate.
      22:20, March 14, 2013
      This reply has been removed

      Eh...call it what you want. I've already moderated my original comment enough for you.

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    • Godisme wrote: Great Cthulu, this is a warning. Do not call people stupid. Fans are free to discuss their theories as they wish. Thats part of being a fan.

      Hmm...just noticed this. To clarify calling an 'action' stupid is objectively not calling a person or persons stupid. It was a general observation about attaching too much importance to any one explanation. One which I do not exempt myself from doing on occasion.

      That said 'stupid' was too strong a word and provoked a response I didn't expect. I'll apologize and be more careful about wording in the future.

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    • To answer everyone's questions at once, I should say one sentence.

      Ichigo is a human.

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    • But..... well..... He's...... I mean....... Ah, crap, you win.

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    • I've read all the replies and what I can see is that Ichigo is an unstable soul.

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    • maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

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    • H-U-M-A-N!

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    • Monterico wrote: maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

      And Asquiaro Ebern looked alot like Aizen.

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    • Schiffy wrote:

      Monterico wrote: maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

      And Asquiaro Ebern looked alot like Aizen.

      Heheh. And Aizen is a Vasto-Lorde.

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    • TechGenusMasterWA01 wrote:

      Schiffy wrote:

      Monterico wrote: maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

      And Asquiaro Ebern looked alot like Aizen.

      Heheh. And Aizen is a Vasto-Lorde.

      haha, there are still more "same-looking" chars we dont notice i guess

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    • Monterico wrote:

      TechGenusMasterWA01 wrote:

      Schiffy wrote:

      Monterico wrote: maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

      And Asquiaro Ebern looked alot like Aizen.

      Heheh. And Aizen is a Vasto-Lorde.

      haha, there are still more "same-looking" chars we dont notice i guess

      And let's not forget Ichigo and Kaien. Though that's easily explained now that we know that Isshin was a Shiba.

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    • And lets not forget..... why am I doing this?

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    • Well what is Ichigo wish? We need to remember this. His wish is to protect everyone, in any way possible.

      Perhaps the Hogyoku granted this 'copy cat' ability in order to fulfill this wish. I don't feel like explaining any more than this :/

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    • Hmm. Interesting idea. Not the most accurate, but it is a good idea.

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    • TechGenusMasterWA01 wrote: Hmm. Interesting idea. Not the most accurate, but it is a good idea.

      Well its not exact fully explain or reviewed, but I am upset I didn't think of it earlier. I'm still gathering (any) evidence on this point. :/

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    • I like the idea, but I generally dislike the Hogyokū after it was shown to be an explanation for everything. I liked how Aizen kept powering up using it, but it got old. In my head, Orihime using her power to erase the Hogyokū always sounded like the best idea. To bad it never happened. I really don't think Ichigo is copying all of the powers. Some are genetic (Quincy powers), while some occur accidentally (Hollow powers). He learns the others (Soul Reaper [although, it was given more than learned, but he had to learn how to use it], Fullbring, and Bankai). Really, in my opinion, it just makes more since to say he is a extremely fast learner. And, he is also able to withstand great effort, and it helps him "learn physically".

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    • TechGenusMasterWA01 wrote: I like the idea, but I generally dislike the Hogyokū after it was shown to be an explanation for everything. I liked how Aizen kept powering up using it, but it got old. In my head, Orihime using her power to erase the Hogyokū always sounded like the best idea. To bad it never happened. I really don't think Ichigo is copying all of the powers. Some are genetic (Quincy powers), while some occur accidentally (Hollow powers). He learns the others (Soul Reaper [although, it was given more than learned, but he had to learn how to use it], Fullbring, and Bankai). Really, in my opinion, it just makes more since to say he is a extremely fast learner. And, he is also able to withstand great effort, and it helps him "learn physically".

      But if those are the only factors, then there would be a bunch of 'Ichigos' running around. But as far as we know, there's really only one (two if count the other Half Shinigami/Human FB user.)

      Sorry if my arguments aren't very solid or accurate. I'm rather busy and only have time to give small explanations/points.

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    • No problem. But I propose that this all occurs in one HUMAN being (mind some people). It is really like hitting a super jackpot.

      My guess is that this occurs 1 in every 3,131,756,795 made up human beings. xP.

      His use of his Shinigami powers actually helped him be able to develop his Fullbring powers in the first place. Not too hard to do (you know, when you ignore the "don't die" part). His Quicny powers were always there, so he didn't copy them, they are genetic. His hollow powers were an accident. So really, it is all luck, and whether he (Ichigo) triggers the events that get him the chance to get the powers. As Napoleon Dynamite once said, "Lucky!"

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    • I think it would be like an Avatar thing and the Shinigami (as well as any other group/race) would have been expecting his birth around that time period, if your point is the case. We know Aizen knew of Ichigo's existence before he was even born, so perhaps that's the case.

      I know you probably don't wanna hear this (I don't like it myself), but could it be possible that the Hogyoku created the circumstances of Ichigo so it can be created or so? Sorta like a string theory or something?

      Makes about as much sense as the existence of Shinigami.

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    • Heheh. Like that last part about the Shinigami. Other than that, you make some valid points. Although the Shinigami probably never thought about it as Isshin must've disappeared off the face of the Earth or something.

      I do not think the Hogyoku does that; the Hogyoku works like a proximity-effect.

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    • Look, I know what I'm about to say is like taking a step back in this whole dicussion... but I can't let one this point go.(hehe..I made a pun) About Ichigo not being able to inherit any shinigami abilities.

      What we know, thanks to the maestro Tite Kubo, is that once a shinigami loses the ability to interact/control spirit particles a small part of his abilities(Shinigami powers) huddle up somewhere within the spirits body.

      My question is this: What prevents a Shinigami who has lost his powers(i.e: Isshin Shiba/Kurosaki) from passing the genetic potential to their kids?

      Isn't it a possibility that Isshin could have passed on a portion of whatever was left of his abilities to Ichigo and the twins? Then there's the Hyogokyu. It's presence has shaken up alot of ideologies of people with it's almost god-like range of influence.

      But if you, like me, take these thoughts as the ramblings of a madman that they are then please just humor a... what's the word I'm looking for... Psycho.

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    • Ok, you made some good points. However, there is one or two flaws here. Isshin was most likely residing in a gigai (like Rukia). He did this so long without Shinigami powers that he "became" human for a intents and purposes. Also, they are sisters, not twins (unrelated anyway). I admit, I believe the ghost seeing part had to be passed down, but not the Soul Reaper powers. The Hogyokū would only work within range, and it was almost never in range, except when Rukia was at Ichigo's house, which I will admit happened a lot.

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    • I think it might also depend on the Gigai. I mean Rukia's allowed her to use Kido. Although, we don't know too much about Isshun's gigai; it could be custom made for him only.

      Also, shouldn't Karin and Yuzu be the same case as Ichigo? I mean:

      They are all half Quincy. They all have spiritual awareness (well, Yuzu's is pretty weak). And they (should) all be Full bringers.

      The only thing difference that I see is that Ichigo has Shinigami powers (added the Hollow).

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    • No, that is not true. Other Fullbringer's mothers were attacked before birth by a Hollow, but not necessarily before Masaki had Yuzu and Karin. Ichigo might have absorbed the Hollow powers when in his mother's womb, and Yuzu and Karin had nothing left to get. Also, Fullbring must be trained, as well as having some object you love to achieve/use it, if not when born. I might sound/be wrong, but I think it makes more sense in my head.

      I agree with Yuzu and Karin being half Quincy UNLESS she somehow ended up in a gigai, which makes no sense.

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    • Masaki in a gigai wouldn't make any sense, seeing as Quincy's are alive in the same way humans are.

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    • Thats why I said it makes no sense.

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    • Actually, I don't think the new Hollow form is an Arrancar, because his mask is completely intact, whereas Tier, for example, seemed more like an Arrancar before she actually became one, even though she actually wasn't at that time. It could be that Hollow Ichigo evolved to Vasto Lordes class sometime during the series. How does he gain the extra power without cannibalizing other Hollows, you ask? It could be that, as Ichigo gained power throughout the series, his inner Hollow did too, as he was shown getting stronger as Ichigo did, such as when Ichigo reached Bankai, Hollow Ichigo was able to do it, too. So I don't think the new Hollow form is an arrancar, just a now-Vasto Lordes that evolved from the reptillian-lookin' old form.

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    • I think the whole crazy hollow powers that seem to differ from the Visoreds is only because Ichigo's method of obtaining the powers and the amount of time he's had to hone them is different than Shinji's crew.

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    • Does anyone else see this as a pattern??? He was a Human who saw spirits and I think that cae from both of his parents, a Shinigami and a Quincy. Also, there are the changing Hollow powers, causing people around where I am to see him as a Visored. And on top of that Ichigo also has or I think had a Fullbring. Then he lost his Shinigami powers, and got them back again. And then discovered he is half Quincy. All I can tell you is I see a pattern... (sorry for errors... some of these are hard to spell...)

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    • To be honest, it almost is like a "riddle". I understand what you are saying.

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    • i agree with rukiakuchikibleachgal

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    • or Kubo doesn't like to exclude Ichigo from all the multi-race war fun, at least he isn't also part bount. "What's that, Bleach anime's back, Bount Arc part 2? Ichigo's a bount!" Soul King damnit. Well at least he does have all these powers at one time, he's been able to use only 2 at a time at max, so far. Many fans speculate that Hichigo is still within/merged with Zangetsu, but Ichigo has a "new" Zangetsu which probably wouldn't still contain the Hollow powers, Zangetsu could even have a different personality, although probably not now that I think about it. A Zanpakuto being made from a shinigami's soul and that Ichigo's hasn't changed any, aside from the Fullbring remnants that changed his Shinigami attire and Zangetsu's appearance, but should we judge a book by its cover, or should it be a sword by its sheathe? Anyway when you think about it slowly, Ichigo being a shinigami, Isshin was a shinigami and Rukia's powers awakened that power in Ichigo's soul. Ichigo having Hollow powers, those were manifested in the Shattered Shaft. Fullbring, Masaki was a Quincy whose sole purpose was erasing Hollows, she was bound to be attacked by one at some point, and when someone says attacked do they really mean ambushed or could she have just been fighting a Hollow and it scratches her, does the infusion of the Hollow's reiatsu have to be incited by fear? Quincy Powers/Blut, Masaki was a quincy, Ichigo is Masaki's child, put things properly together and Bam! Ichigo's a Quincy. Ichigo just having all these powers is probably just a wide coincidence within the Bleach Universe but to us observers of it, its quite the quirky mystery. But for me if something looks cool enough usually I don't need to understand it.

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    • SunXia
      SunXia removed this reply because:
      Spam
      05:52, April 4, 2013
      This reply has been removed

      hmm...

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    • SunXia
      SunXia removed this reply because:
      Spam
      05:52, April 4, 2013
      This reply has been removed

      hahah

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    • TechGenusMasterWA01 wrote: Ok, you made some good points. However, there is one or two flaws here. Isshin was most likely residing in a gigai (like Rukia). He did this so long without Shinigami powers that he "became" human for a intents and purposes. Also, they are sisters, not twins (unrelated anyway). I admit, I believe the ghost seeing part had to be passed down, but not the Soul Reaper powers. The Hogyokū would only work within range, and it was almost never in range, except when Rukia was at Ichigo's house, which I will admit happened a lot.

      Sorry for the disapearing for so long on you guys, you know how life happens when you wish it would'nt. Anyway, back to the side debate. When Isshin lost he's power's he became a normal plus(for debate's sake) residing in a gigai and therefore became a...what's a good word here...uhm...oh yeah...pseudo human. This would explain the not seeing spirits(or he's claims of not seeing them atleast), but lets not forget that Isshin was still a spirit or like Rukia a powered down Shinigami. We can't state conclusively that he was completly powerless. There's also the fact that we don't know of the extent of Urahara's skill for replicating the human body for it's various uses. That brings about the major question of: How can a spirit impregnate a human woman, even when in a gigai?

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    • That's a good question..... XD

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    • bleachasylum003004.gif

      ^Grand Fisher calls Ichigo a "true blood" only after realizing that his father was a shinigami which tells us:

      1. Isshin is most likely his biological father. 2. Ichigo did inherit some type of power from him. 3. Whatever "true blood" means you need to be part shinigami to be one.

      And whats so unbelievable about soul reapers bearing children while in gigai form. From what we know the soul reaper anatomy is pretty much the same as humans. They can reproduce with other souls in the soul society so why not humans when in the real world?

      What I really want to know is what we're missing that makes ichigo so special. If you think about it any character in this show can acquire hollow/shinigami/quincy powers if they really wanted to. Ginjou Kugo is pretty much one Quicny pendant away from having all the reiastu types as ichigo(if you count fullbring and hollow powers together).

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    • OKAY. What i don't get is when in the manga after Ichigo's zanpakuto gets broken and the chapter ends, it said, "My son, born in darkness". Its unclear whether the boss Quincy guy was saying it or it was just a caption or something. But there is a possibility that Isshin is not Ichigo's bio father, despite the similarities in power.

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    • Isshin is Ichigo's father. Nothing else has been confirmed. Besides, villains say and do a lot of dumb things to Ichigo! Have you met Aizen?

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    • I like what TechGenusMasterWA01 wrote. Ha.. "Have you met Aizen?". LOL! But, by the way, Isshin is most definitely Ichigo's father, i can guarantee it!

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    • Wow. Just as Masaki and Isshin's past is revealed, some crazy theories about Isshin not being Ichigo's biological father surfaced. So Masaki, who was meant to wed with Ryuken, married Isshin then had time to fool around then bam! Ichigo appeared then some years later she just died protecting Ichi-ni.

      About the "my son, born in darkness"... so Yhwach is Ichi's pops? Maybe we need to stop taking things literally like the meaning of that statement was "Ichigo, you were born a Quincy and you knew nothing of it" (Hence the "darkness" part)

      --"Yes Ichigo, I'm your father, the leader of Vandenreich and being the overly manly father of yours, I stabbed you in the neck so you can see that you can use Blut. I embedded a medallion in your soul that's why you stole Isshin's bankai and able to perform Getsuga Tensho. The only thing left for me to do is to teach you how to use Sprenger. Don't worry about Zangetsu, I have 5 Seeleschneiders especially made for you." Now this is what I want to see in the next chapter.

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    • That'll happen when Kubo legally changes his name to George Lucas.

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    • So... will Disney try to buy Bleach copyrights? Zero Division having Mickey's shadow face as insignia?

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    • Oh god, don't give me a heart attack here. They're already screwing up with killing Lucasarts, last thing we need is for the Gotei 13 to become Organization XIII.

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    • LOL! Schiffy, you're quite the comedian!

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    • Then see Bleach in a new Kingdom Heart's stage called Soul Society? Your buddy would be Ichigo then plotline is from Thousand Year Blood War Arc? "Sora, you've got to help Soul Society from those Quincies!" Nice one Disney.

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    • )
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    • XD

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    • And each of the Captains become the Nobodies corresponding to their Organization number. That would make Byakuya Saix, and Ukitake Roxas.

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    • I guess...

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    • Okay, now I'm going off on a tangent. But yeah, this would be almost as bad as a 4kids dub of Bleach.

      The Arrancars and the Vandenreich would be "bullies" and Masaki "went on a vacation and never came back"

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    • You never cease to amuse me...

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    • Check this out!!: http://www.mangapanda.com/bleach/519/13

      Funniest Bleach moment ever!

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    • Then Aizen will become the Organization's Namine who will cast the world into infinite illusions and Tsukishima is his right man that rewrites a person's past. Screw this, I'm out of this world once Bleach becomes Disney's new toy.

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    • And then Neku Sakuraba shows up to play the Reaper's Game, only to realize he ended up in Karakura and not Shibuya.

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    • How exactly did this thread turned crazy?

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    • It turned crazy when people said Isshin was not Ichigo's father.

      So, when people stopped reading Bleach. XP I would avoid speculation whoever wrote that comment!

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    • It turned crazy when someone speculated Yhwach to be Ichigo's father. >:D

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    • My theory is that perhaps this nice fellow whose name alludes me ATM, is related to Ichigo. I see him as being another survivor from the Kurosaki clan. And he sees his younger (grandson?) Ichigo as one of his "children".

      I think KH/Bleach could work out. I've see it starting with Ichigo getting his Powers for the first episode, giving Sora a red ribbon when he finish the world for the first time. After, in the second episode, Sora and Ichigo go save Rukia and Sora gets some Keyblade. KH2 only had 2 episodes per world (excluding the Timeless River/Disney Castle, 100 arc woods, TWTNW, and Atlantica). I'm a KH goober; love the game.

      But yeah, Isshun is indeed Ichigo's father from what Kubo has bluntly and obviously implied. And how exactly would Ichigo "steal" Isshun's bankai? In the manga, Aizen said that Isshun's bankai causes a great strain on his body. Ichigo's bankai is nothing like that, if anything, its made to last longer than most bankais.

      And Isshun's zanpakuto (iirc) is Ingetsu (Which means something like Slashing moon), Ichigo's is Zangetsu, which means piercing moon. Although they are very similar, they seem to be overall different people. We have no evidence that relatives == similar Zanpakuto. If you look at Byakuya's Zenbonsakura and compare it to Muramasa (a zanpakuto spirit that belongs to Byakuya's ancestor.), they have horribly different abilities.

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    • We still have no proof whether relatives have or doesn't have similar Zanpakuto. Muramasa is not-canon therefore you cannot compare it with Senbonzakura. If we are to receive a proof, we must wait if Ginrei's or Sojun's Zanpakuto wiLL be revealed.

      and if you're referring to my "Ichigo stealing Isshin's bankai" it's sarcasm for the guy who thinks Yhwach is Ichigo's father.

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    • SenNoKuroiHonoo wrote: and if you're referring to my "Ichigo stealing Isshin's bankai" it's sarcasm for the guy who thinks Yhwach is Ichigo's father.

      Ah, my apologies.

      I thought I wrote the fact that the Muramasa issue wasn't Canon... But still, just because it isn't canon, it doesn't mean "Lets make a f**k logic arc! Lets make humans fly and Ichigo the ability to turn into a hell butterfly." Something usually makes SOME sense. But what do I know? I'm just a 17 year old n00b who lost all of his ability to care about anything anymore. :/

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    • Still, technically, Zangetsu is not a Zanpakuto as stated by Oetsu as Ichigo achieved it without using Asauchi.

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    • While Zangetsu may have been achieved without using an Asauchi, to say it's not a Zanpakuto at all wouldn't make any sense, because then you'd have to say that all the Arrancar's swords aren't Zanpakuto, which it has been established that they are.

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    • My facts are getting mixed up because of too much forum activity. It is a Zanpakuto but somehow something doesn't feel right. How I wish they release 2 chapters a week. :(

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    • SenNoKuroiHonoo wrote: Still, technically, Zangetsu is not a Zanpakuto as stated by Oetsu as Ichigo achieved it without using Asauchi.

      I have to agree with this.

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    • But it is a Zanpakuto! Ichigo has a spirit in his soul that determined that Ichigo is worthy of wielding him, which is a characteristic of Zanpakuto. Zangetsu displays the same things a normal Zanpakuto does; A Shikai, the ability to attain Bankai, and even having an inner world or spirit. While most Zanpakuto spirit info is Non-canon, Renji's has been shown before. Therefore, we know that Zanpakuto having spirits is Canon!

      We know that Ichigo's Zangetsu has most of the qualities of a Zanpakuto, and these outnumber the one against it.

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    • Zangetsu's current situation is really hard to determine. It's a Zanpakuto yet it's not made using Asauchi. Maybe I'm over thinking things or I'm starting to believe those speculations that Ichigo made Zangetsu like how Quincy form their arrows. Crazy me.

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    • Again, does this mean a Zanpakuto made by a hollow removing their mask is also not a real Zanpakuto?

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    • I concede. :D

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    • Good Question..

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    • Yeah, that's true. Arrancars have their own Zanpakuto but the difference between the Arrancar's and the Shinigami's are what kind of abilities it possess. Shinigami uses an Asauchi, imprint their soul in it, then the Zanpakuto's spirit is born. Arrancars seal the nuclei of their original power into a form of sword so when they seal their Zanpakuto, they generally are weakening themselves while on the Shinigami's case, when they reseal their swords, they just return to their original strength. Nevertheless, they are just the same. They both have Zanpakuto.

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    • Ok,ok I get it. I have to agree, Engetsu is a zanpakuto...

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    • SenNoKuroiHonoo wrote: Still, technically, Zangetsu is not a Zanpakuto as stated by Oetsu as Ichigo achieved it without using Asauchi.

      Actually I'm pretty sure it was that "Zangetsu is not an ordinary zanpakuto." I should probably check to make sure, but I'm kinda lazy.

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    • Since Ōetsu refuse to repair Zangetsu does that meet that Ichigo is going to wear white and shoot arrows.

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    • Andym221 wrote: Since Ōetsu refuse to repair Zangetsu does that meet that Ichigo is going to wear white and shoot arrows.

      I'm sorry, but this is just too funny.

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    • It's like saying, "And pigs will fly!"

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    • Tōshirō Hitsugaya-kun wrote: It's like saying, "And pigs will fly!"

      In anime atleast, it seems they can.

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    • Andym221 wrote: Since Ōetsu refuse to repair Zangetsu does that meet that Ichigo is going to wear white and shoot arrows.

      It probably means, Ichigo can only repair his bankai himself, using Quincy methods. If a shinigami "MUST" use an Asauchi, and Ichigo didn't it must mean he made it himself. Ōetsu can probably only repair an Asauchi (what all his swords are) if Ichigo isnt using one, how can Ōetsu repair it?

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    • Skitzo1 wrote:

      Andym221 wrote: Since Ōetsu refuse to repair Zangetsu does that meet that Ichigo is going to wear white and shoot arrows.

      It probably means, Ichigo can only repair his bankai himself, using Quincy methods. If a shinigami "MUST" use an Asauchi, and Ichigo didn't it must mean he made it himself. Ōetsu can probably only repair an Asauchi (what all his swords are) if Ichigo isnt using one, how can Ōetsu repair it?

      EXACTLY. How can someone repair a Zanpakuto without an Asauchi? If Ichigo made Zangetsu by himself, how would Oetsu help him out? He rejected Ichigo because he's not even a Shinigami to start with.

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    • Monterico wrote: maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

      waaaw!! my guess is right! zangetsu is yhwach! haha

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    • Skitzo1 wrote:

      Andym221 wrote: Since Ōetsu refuse to repair Zangetsu does that meet that Ichigo is going to wear white and shoot arrows.

      It probably means, Ichigo can only repair his bankai himself, using Quincy methods. If a shinigami "MUST" use an Asauchi, and Ichigo didn't it must mean he made it himself. Ōetsu can probably only repair an Asauchi (what all his swords are) if Ichigo isnt using one, how can Ōetsu repair it?

      Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the misconception here is that he's going to repair his Zanpakuto. Oettsu said he was going to reforge is Zanpakuto so he was essential creating him a new sword not fixing his original one.

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    • Monterico wrote:

      Monterico wrote: maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

      waaaw!! my guess is right! zangetsu is yhwach! haha

      I read that before reading 540, thinking "no effing way that's possible..."

      Then... I read it. What the hell, Kubo?

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    • I knew it was weird that Zangetsu resembled Yhwach.

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    • Does this mean that the real Zangetsu might just be the entity we all knew as Hollow Ichigo?

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    • Schiffy wrote: Does this mean that the real Zangetsu might just be the entity we all knew as Hollow Ichigo?

      Well he did say "I AM ZANGETSU!" back when Ichigo fought him.

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    • Fatdude wrote:

      Schiffy wrote: Does this mean that the real Zangetsu might just be the entity we all knew as Hollow Ichigo?

      Well he did say "I AM ZANGETSU!" back when Ichigo fought him.

      Perhaps he was telling the truth... Think of it this way. Ichigo knows this thing as his "inner hollow." However, He had never been to his soul's inner world before becoming a visored, so he has no real way of knowing whether or not this entity was always there. Perhaps he always was, as he is, or could possibly be, the real Zangetsu.

      However, this still leaves one little discrepancy. He fought what he thought was Zangetsu in order to achieve Bankai. But last I checked, a Shinigami actually has to best their Zanpakuto's spirit in a fight in order to do so.

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    • Schiffy wrote:

      Fatdude wrote:

      Schiffy wrote: Does this mean that the real Zangetsu might just be the entity we all knew as Hollow Ichigo?

      Well he did say "I AM ZANGETSU!" back when Ichigo fought him.

      Perhaps he was telling the truth... Think of it this way. Ichigo knows this thing as his "inner hollow." However, He had never been to his soul's inner world before becoming a visored, so he has no real way of knowing whether or not this entity was always there. Perhaps he always was, as he is, or could possibly be, the real Zangetsu.

      However, this still leaves one little discrepancy. He fought what he thought was Zangetsu in order to achieve Bankai. But last I checked, a Shinigami actually has to best their Zanpakuto's spirit in a fight in order to do so.

      Well, remember "Sklaverei" use by Quilge? If Yhwach can use Sklaverei too, perhaps he used it on Ichigo's Zanpakuto Spirit. Though his appearance would probably change if he did that.

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    • Monterico wrote: maybe there is connection between ichigo and yhwach afterall. the mister zangetsu resembles him a lot haha

      (Originally posted: 02:05, March 17, 2013) You've got some sharp eyes there, Monterico. ^^

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    • in my simple mind, it's just like this: the hollow powers enter ichigo, fuse with mixing shinigami and quincy power which exist before, and take the resemblance of yhwach, because zanpakutou 'must have a resemblance'. shinigami or hollow resemblance maybe too mainstream, so the three-mixed-powers choose the resemblance of quincy. quincy is yhwach, so the resemblance is yhwach --ah i'm talking nonsense--

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    • i am new to this thread but how did it go from being about ichigo and what he is to what his sword is?

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    • I think Ichigo is 1/2 Quincy from his mom. And that is where his Fullbring came from because of Whitey attacking her his soul and hers ended up merging. And 1/2 Shinigami from his dad even if he didn't have his powers when Ichigo was conceived he is still a Shinigami. That's why he was able to awaken his own Shinigami powers through the shattered shaft because he had the power hidden in his soul. But because he awakened his Shinigami powers from his soul it also awoke the Hollow that was sleeping in him as well. The Hollow was transferred from his mom sometime between his conception to his birth or when his mom died the Hollow was some how able to detach himself from her soul but was to weak to survive on his own and latched on to Ichigo so he wouldn't die and went into a kind of hibernation in Ichigo's soul until Ichigo woke him up. After the Hollow woke up he for some reason couldn't detach himself form Ichigo's soul. (maybe because the two souls were merged together for so long) And when Rukia transferred her power to him it wasn't enough to fully awaken either his power or the Hollows, and that's why he had what looked like an overlarge Asauchi and not his usual full time Shikai from not being able to control His Reiatsu. As Ichigo got stronger so did the Hollow because there souls are merged together. That would also explain why Ichigo has such an amazing growth rate because both souls are growing at the same time as if they were separate souls instead of one merged soul. And even though he had his Fullbring stolen from him the remaining traces where still there and helped strengthen his powers. And because the Visoreds or at least the ones who went back to soul society not sure if the others did as well, put their Reiatsu into the sword that brought his powers back that should have helped reawaken and strengthen the Hollow soul's and his own soul's power. Then when he escaped Quilge's jail by using up all his Reiatsu up which is a mix of his and the Holow's Reiatsu awakened the Quincy power that was still sleeping in his soul. Thus all his power have been awakened but hasn't been trained. And that could be said for all his different powers except for his Fullbring which was trained and completed. It can be inferred that he has had some training in Hakuda somewhat from his dad, Zanjutsu somewhat from Kisuke Urahara, Hohō during his Bankai training from Yoruichi Shihōin, no Kidō at all or controlling his Reiatsu, and the training he did get or is inferred that he got wasn't anywhere near complete. All he learned from the Visoreds are how to subdue the hollow inside and how to use the his mask but nothing else. And nothing from or of Quincy powers, Blut Vene he did out of instinct. His Zanpakutō came from Whitey which was created similar to how Asauchi are created so it is not a Quincy spirit weapon. and explained why it changed after Ichigo got his powers back. and will change again when it is reforged. But if ichigo was trained in Hakuda, Zanjutsu, Hohō, Kidō, and he retrains with his new Shikai and Bankai, and learn to use the powers of the Hollow that is merged to his own, and learn to use some Quincy powers (maybe from Ryūken Ishida or Mayuri Kurotsuchi because he has studied the Quincy.) And might end up Becoming the New Soul King. After all the whole story of Bleach is about Ichigo and I think that would be a good ending after the story is over you now like an epilogue showing what eventually will happen.

      What do you guys think????? I think I did a pretty good job tying everything together and trying to predict what will happen to Ichigo in the future!!!!!!!

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    • Firemonkeyjoe wrote: I think Ichigo is 1/2 Quincy from his mom. And that is where his Fullbring came from because of Whitey attacking her his soul and hers ended up merging. And 1/2 Shinigami from his dad even if he didn't have his powers when Ichigo was conceived he is still a Shinigami. That's why he was able to awaken his own Shinigami powers through the shattered shaft because he had the power hidden in his soul. But because he awakened his Shinigami powers from his soul it also awoke the Hollow that was sleeping in him as well. The Hollow was transferred from his mom sometime between his conception to his birth or when his mom died the Hollow was some how able to detach himself from her soul but was to weak to survive on his own and latched on to Ichigo so he wouldn't die and went into a kind of hibernation in Ichigo's soul until Ichigo woke him up. After the Hollow woke up he for some reason couldn't detach himself form Ichigo's soul. (maybe because the two souls were merged together for so long) And when Rukia transferred her power to him it wasn't enough to fully awaken either his power or the Hollows, and that's why he had what looked like an overlarge Asauchi and not his usual full time Shikai from not being able to control His Reiatsu. As Ichigo got stronger so did the Hollow because there souls are merged together. That would also explain why Ichigo has such an amazing growth rate because both souls are growing at the same time as if they were separate souls instead of one merged soul.

      I don't think everything would be "that" complicated. I doubt Ichigo has two souls. I would assume he has an advanced growth rate is because of a few reasons. 1) He is naturally gifted 2) He is human, his short life span may lead him to develop quicker, like how other animals mature quicker than humans because they have shorter life spans. As an assumption anyway. But again, it is probably just natural talent.

      I think he inherited some Shinigami powers because of his Quincy abilities, such as Reishi Absorption, so when he was a fetus, he unknowingly absorbed his father's Reishi being used to restrain the Reiatsu and Hollowification abilities of "White".

      And to answer your earlier question about "i am new to this thread but how did it go from being about ichigo and what he is to what his sword is?"

      It's always been about swords, its more or less the premise of the entire series, "Zangetsu" has been just a big a character in affecting the outcome of the series, as Aizen, Yhwach and even Ichigo himself. Without a sword, there wouldn't "really" be a Bleach, it would just be Dragon Ball Z with fancy spells and enemies. Its important about what his sword is, because "Zangetsu" is his most trusted friend, his mentor, an ally, a brother in arms. Ichigo has fought more battles alongside "Zangetsu" than anything else, and to find out he is now the image of the most wicked enemy Ichigo has encountered, and the man responsible for his Mother's death, the man who killed so many people, and destroyed a place he could nearly call a second home. He would feel betrayed. Its probably one of the most shocking revelations thus far in the series.

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    • I know it's been a while and this thread has probably been axed from your minds but I have a theory on what Ichigo truly is.

      Okay, lets take into account that he(Ichigo) was born a Quincy. That would make him a pure Quincy with the potential to use fullbring. Then we introduce White, who was one of Aizen's first attempts at combining or fusing Shinigami and hollow abilities.

      Quote: Isshin,"It feels as if I'm fighting against a zanpakutou!" Or something to that affect.

      That would mean that Ichigo's inner hollow is an incomplete(unfinished?) arrancar. Therefore Ichigo did not actually inherit the shinigami abilities he is exhibiting were a copy of his father's attack that he used against white.

      What do you thjink about my crazy rationalisations?

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    • So, are you saying that you believe Ichigo's Shinigami abilties was passed on by White, and not by Isshin?

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    • Sleeplessnight wrote: Wow, Ichigo have too much power. He is a Gary Stu. Can't wait to see his new power form. Will he look like a Quincy, Soul Reader again or a new different form.

      soul reader? :3

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    • WWhat if we are overthinking this?I see a pattern, as I said in a previous reply. What if... Ichigo isn't the riddle, but the awnser to an unfound riddle? Or even, what if... Ichigo is only a small peice in a riddle?

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    • Zangetsu is a Zanpakto.

      The Zanpakto as wielded by Ichigo prior to the shattered shaft incident is (mostly) Rukia's, a shinigami's, powers and part X Ichigo power, source of which TBD.

      Zangetsu as wielded by ichigo after the shattered shaft incident is that of that 100% X Ichigo power.

      Lets say for the sake of argument that X power is Quincy power.

      In that case Ichigo has not been returning hollowed souls to soul society he has been completely destroying them for the last couple arcs. If he has no shinigami powers, then he would not have been able to do soul burials. Guess what guys, he hasn't done a soul burial since before the shattered shaft incident. Not a proof by any means, but I do find it interesting.

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    • Fyaconiello.

      Hollow Ichigo, Ichigo's true Zanpakutõ, was awakened during shattered shaft, and has existed parallel to the old man ever since. The old man, Ichigo's Quincy powers, could only suppress Hollow Ichigo to a certain degree, not cancel out his powers completely. Since Ichigo has been able to perform Konso on Plusses, that should prove he was using a real Zanpakutõ, unless a Quincy weapon can disintegrate a Soul merely by touching its forehead.

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    • Since Ichigo has been able to perform Konso on Plusses, that should prove he was using a real Zanpakutõ

      Stefan, Last time Ichigo performed Konso on a plus was when he was using Rukia's powers not his own.

      I personally think Ichigo has Shinigami powers somewhere in his magical OP bag of powers. However, many folks in this thread are postulating that Ichigo is a human with Quincy powers and some hollow powers transferred through his mother from whitey and possibly some strange echo of shinigami powers transferred through whitey from Isshin.

      I was just trying to state that if it is the case that he is 100% Quincy, ever since he lost Rukia's powers that he has been destroying Souls not returning them to soul society.

      What an interesting twist it would make.

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    • Well, Fyaconiello, let's say Ichigo hasn't performed a single Konso after shattered shaft, though I think we simply haven't seen him perform any, as they were not important to the plot. When Ichigo recieves a Hollow alert through his combat badge, his activities should be monitored by the S.R.D.I., and I'm sure they are able to tell whether a Hollow has been purified and sent to Soul Society, or if it's existance has been completely erased.

      Considering that, if Ichigo has been destroying Souls all this time, then the S.R.D.I., or Mayuri in particular, has been hiding this fact from other Shinigami for some reason. It would certainly create an interresting plot twist, as you mentioned, but I find it rather far-fetched.

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    • Just had a thought Ichigo's Shinigami powers are represented by his inner Hollow that is also his Zanpakuto spirit maybe that could help explain his advanced growth rate. Because when a Hollow devors another Hollow they get stronger right. So maybe every time Ichigo kills a Hollow before it is sent to Soul Society or even damages a Hollow he gains a little bit more power from it because it is like he is devouring them.

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    • You mean a sort of similarity to Aaroniero's power of gaining the power from every hollow he devoured, only that Ichigo just got a part of the hollows' powers? It's an interesting theory.

      Regarding his status, he is definitely a Shinigami. Whether he is 100 % Shinigami in his soul form, or 50 % Shinigami and 50 % Quincy, is something we don't know. I don't thin it's been stated. But the facts tell that he is indeed a real Shinigami in his soul form.

      • he has a Zanpakutô which is now "complete" with an Asauchi base
      • he has a constant-release Shikai, and he can perform Bankai

      Zangetsu never had an Asauchi base, but he could nevertheless perform Bankai, which I think is a good enough proof that it has always been a Zanpakutô, just not a complete/real one.

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    • No not their powers. But like when the the hollows go from being a Gillian to an Adjuchas and eventually to a Vasto Lorde. They eat other Hollows to increase their own Reiatsu, Reiryoku strength, speed, Endurance, and Durability. Until they can evolve. Like how Ichigo's Hollow form changed. Over time His inner Hollow/Zanpakutô spirit could have been "eating" the hollows he defeated. And because they are a part of each other they supplemented each others growth rate. Allowing his inner Hollow/Zanpakutô spirit evolve much faster than normal. And Ichigo himself gets stronger faster than normal plus his own natural talent and being of a noble family of Shinigami and a Echt Quincy.

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    • Ok i am just going to state i don't like the fact Ichigo is the gene soup of bleach come on one can be powerful and not be a freaking soup bowl.

      Firemonkeyjoe wrote: No not their powers. But like when the the hollows go from being a Gillian to an Adjuchas and eventually to a Vasto Lorde. They eat other Hollows to increase their own Reiatsu, Reiryoku strength, speed, Endurance, and Durability. Until they can evolve. Like how Ichigo's Hollow form changed. Over time His inner Hollow/Zanpakutô spirit could have been "eating" the hollows he defeated. And because they are a part of each other they supplemented each others growth rate. Allowing his inner Hollow/Zanpakutô spirit evolve much faster than normal.


      Eating the hallows i like that idea ALOT better then most i have read. Considering that during his battle with Byakuya Ichigo said something like this *"it (Zangetsu) eats my Reishi and compress it then releases it" Which is similar to the Quincies Reishi Absorption plus quincies use a weapon that asborbs enemies Reishi.


      But that would only explain why his powers kept evolving and not the huge plothole (for me i know this is a manga but i will only take so much plotholes has mangafacts) of Ichigo being freaking gene soap.

      • Can't find it maybe if i had more time but its around 160 in the manga.
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    • Stefan (Shikai - "Rust & Shatter") wrote: Well, Fyaconiello, let's say Ichigo hasn't performed a single Konso after shattered shaft, though I think we simply haven't seen him perform any, as they were not important to the plot. When Ichigo recieves a Hollow alert through his combat badge, his activities should be monitored by the S.R.D.I., and I'm sure they are able to tell whether a Hollow has been purified and sent to Soul Society, or if it's existance has been completely erased.

      Considering that, if Ichigo has been destroying Souls all this time, then the S.R.D.I., or Mayuri in particular, has been hiding this fact from other Shinigami for some reason. It would certainly create an interresting plot twist, as you mentioned, but I find it rather far-fetched.

      Man Stefan you and Fyaconiello i can't tell if you two are for Ichigo being gene soup or not but good points none the less.

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    • Firemonkeyjoe wrote: No not their powers. But like when the the hollows go from being a Gillian to an Adjuchas and eventually to a Vasto Lorde. They eat other Hollows to increase their own Reiatsu, Reiryoku strength, speed, Endurance, and Durability. Until they can evolve. Like how Ichigo's Hollow form changed. Over time His inner Hollow/Zanpakutô spirit could have been "eating" the hollows he defeated. And because they are a part of each other they supplemented each others growth rate. Allowing his inner Hollow/Zanpakutô spirit evolve much faster than normal.

      That's what I meant, that his inner hollow perhaps consumed a part of the reiatsu of every hollow Ichigo killed.

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    • SenNoKuroiHonoo wrote: Wow. Just as Masaki and Isshin's past is revealed, some crazy theories about Isshin not being Ichigo's biological father surfaced. So Masaki, who was meant to wed with Ryuken, married Isshin then had time to fool around then bam! Ichigo appeared then some years later she just died protecting Ichi-ni.

      About the "my son, born in darkness"... so Yhwach is Ichi's pops? Maybe we need to stop taking things literally like the meaning of that statement was "Ichigo, you were born a Quincy and you knew nothing of it" (Hence the "darkness" part)

      --"Yes Ichigo, I'm your father, the leader of Vandenreich and being the overly manly father of yours, I stabbed you in the neck so you can see that you can use Blut. I embedded a medallion in your soul that's why you stole Isshin's bankai and able to perform Getsuga Tensho. The only thing left for me to do is to teach you how to use Sprenger. Don't worry about Zangetsu, I have 5 Seeleschneiders especially made for you." Now this is what I want to see in the next chapter.

      Bahahahaha :D crack me up :D No, no, Yhwach is the king of quincy, on top of that his blood flows in every quincy's veins. Thats wht he probably meant while he said "My so,born in darkness..." Because, when your over 1000years old, you can call any of your descendants "my son." and Ichigo being part quincy puts him into that group, plus its probably a term of stuffed up endearment, thats what I think anyway. Sorry for jumping in a bit late, I just get a bit frustrated with people saying Isshin wasn't Ichigo's father. It wouldn't explain how Ganju looks like Isshin, Kukkaku looks like Karin and Ichigo looks like Kaien, they're almost exact replicas of one another. And of course Yuzu takes after Masaki. But its plains as day who his biolgical parents are... It ain't Ryuuken lol. That would be awkward. Plus Uryuu is a carbon copy of Ryuuken and Katagiri in one person anyway. All I'm thinking is that you wouldn't think that having Shinigami and Quincy parents would work, like it wouldn't neccessarily give you the best of both worlds. And I am going totally off track. I'm sorry, I'll stop there :) SOrry had a duh-brain moment.

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    • What we need to do is get a punnet square going for the Masaki/Isshin(/Yhwach???) offsprings. Someone get word to Kubo that we need genotype lore for quincy/hollow/shinigami traits.

      Bio majors assemble.

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    • I've noticed the heavy similarity between Ichigo and Kaien. ANd now that you mention it, I can clearly see a resemblance with Isshin and Ganju, particular in some facial expressions, and Karin and Kûkaku.

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    • Sternritter M wrote: I've noticed the heavy similarity between Ichigo and Kaien. ANd now that you mention it, I can clearly see a resemblance with Isshin and Ganju, particular in some facial expressions, and Karin and Kûkaku.

      Yes, even the way they interact with one another, how Ganju and Ichigo do care, but like with Isshin, they constantly argue and fight. Though in Issin's case it was to make Ichigo stronger. But even Kûkaku, Ganju and Kaien's personalities are quite similar to that of Ichigo, Karin and Isshin, while Yuzu is quite determined like the rest of them, she isn't as much a hot-head as Ichigo and Karin. They all fight for the ones they care for, and they care deeply about a lot of people because they ALL have big hearts :) that is all of their similarities. I'm sorry if this in't making much sense, I'm pretty tired :/

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    • I agree with you completely, QuincyKatana. The above mentioned characters' "big hearts", outspoken natures, their strong sense of justice and determination to protect others, also make them natural leaders.

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    • Definitely Stefan :) they're all too alike, in nature and appearance, for Issin NOT to be Ichigo's father.

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    • all in all, Ichigo is Everything and Tite Kubo likes to mess with everyones minds

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    • Know this as been coverd, but for fun

      Ichigos powers explained

      • Shinigami: Being the son of Isshin Kurosaki, a former shinigami trapped in in the human world (due to him giving up his power to save Masaki), the probability for him gaining the powers of a shinigami, even being born with it, is highly likely. The return of his powers is simply explained that Uruhara knows how to make a plus to a shinigami, and since he already had powers from birth (my assumption) it shouldn’t be that big of a problem regaining them. Further assumption is that he got the powers of a shinigami due to the fact that Rukia had the hogyoku in her at the moment of transferee (and since it materializes ones hearts deepest desires, the transferee has an almost guarantee that it would work). The return of his power 17 months after the defeat of Aizen is hard to explain, but it has a basis. Many of those around him notice a small residue of reiatsu in him. Enhancing this with the reiatsu of shinigami like Renji, Ikkaku, Kenpachi, Toshiro and Byakuya, his powers where almost guaranteed to return.

      • Quincy: Since his mother was a pure blood Quincy, it would be strange that he don’t have any Quincy powers in him. The reason he didn’t have the powers from the start could be explained by the fact that he wasn’t aware of it (same as his shinigami powers in my opinion). His powers manifesting at the point is does might be explained by the fact that he was attacked by a high power quincy and awakening the reiatsu from his mother.

      • Hollowfication: Due to the prosses of how his powers where returned the second time (turning into a hollow and at the last minute stopping the prosses to gain shinigami powers again). It might also trace back to the fact that his mother also was affected with hollowfication before his birth, giving him reiatsu that already had startet the prosses.

      • Fullbringer: Again, the power of fullbringer is based on the fact that his mother was attacked by a hollow and survived before his birth.

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    • Shade2102 wrote:

      • Further assumption is that he got the powers of a shinigami due to the fact that Rukia had the hogyoku in her at the moment of transferee (and since it materializes ones hearts deepest desires, the transferee has an almost guarantee that it would work).

      • This is an interresting observation and we should probably take into consideration that the Hogyoku, while hidden within Rukia, could have had an influence on other events as well; involving those closest to Rukia. One thing that comes to mind is how Ichigo, against all odds, survived his first encounter with Byakuya and Renji, after which he was left for dead. Rukia's wish to save Ichigo might have been granted by the Hogyoku.

      Shade2102 wrote:

      • Hollowfication: Due to the prosses of how his powers where returned the second time (turning into a hollow and at the last minute stopping the prosses to gain shinigami powers again). It might also trace back to the fact that his mother also was affected with hollowfication before his birth, giving him reiatsu that already had startet the prosses.

      • Fullbringer: Again, the power of fullbringer is based on the fact that his mother was attacked by a hollow and survived before his birth.

      • The fact that Masaki survived the Hollow "infection", the result of White biting her, is another contradiction to the Quincy's recently revealed mortal weakness to Hollows. The other being how Quilge Opie absorbed Ayon, without hesitation, and didn't suffer from it.
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    • Agree on both points, but Masaki is a pure blood quincy so here weakness might be less visable than a half like Quilge. And with regards to Ayon, thou it is made from hollows, it might not be a hollow. The second thougth is that arrancar and hollow might have diffrent effects on quincy. If that is the case, the absorbing Ayon would have no affect on any Quincy.

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    • In chapter 514, page 7, after Yhwach stabbed Ichigo in the neck with his spirit weapon and noticed that Ichigo used Blut to stop the blade, Yhwach said "it was a mistake to use a pure Quincy to stop you".

      I think that line proves that Quilge was a Echt Quincy.

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    • Then his weakness might also be lowered.

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    • 72.21.217.72
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