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  • Ok I think we need a full proper discussion here on the Wiki about things continually being brought up multiple times both here, on the Wiki and elsewhere. Its usually being brought up by users who do not have a strong history in editing and expanding articles here so it would be helpful to have everyone's (admins and team members) input.

    As much as it ended badly, or too quickly for people and thus contributing to bad feelings, the Manga for all intents and purposes, is over and finished. As is, for now and future so far, the Anime. As much as there is still a lot being worked on for the Manga and Anime as improvement is always fundamental in growth, there is a large Elephant in the room, or multiple large elephants, in the form of Other Bleach Media.

    The Manga may have ended and while I do not advocate ever taking the focus of this Wiki away from the Manga as the official source of Bleach, other Bleach media is continually being produced. At the moment it looks like there is a Live action Film being produced (someone recently sent me this) and Novels have been released since last Summer.

    Almost a year has passed and people are worried the Wiki is becoming Stagnant in terms of the new "other media" Bleach sources not being included.

    We are not the only wiki that faces this type of conundrum as when a franchise reaches a certain size, it becomes like a tree that is grown in different directions. Look at Star Wars as an example and how that Wiki had to deal with those major changes. They have different sorts of canon and EU and books and such that while reflecting the ever evolving nature of that world, before Disney bought those rights, they were still able to reflect the difference between Film Canon and EU canon despite the film always being the source.

    Man this is long winded and I would not like any arguments here as I know people are passionate one way or another so I would like at least not to have insults. Personally I am proud of the work we have all put into this Wiki and proud of how it exists as the paramount collection of Bleach information.

    However I think we need to publicly discuss how we all would like to move forward with the Wiki in light of "Other Media" being the only active side of Bleach at this moment in time. Please guys try to be polite, I don't want to annoy anyone but I think its time to have this Discussion as Editors, not just fans demanding things of the Editors here. And we also need to have a single place for this discussion as multiple blogs and topics splits the conversation.

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    • It's been almost a year since the manga ended and I agree as a community, it's time to move forward. There are many exciting things coming to the Bleach fandom, and while the manga will always be #1, I think it's time to let other parts of this wonderful series have time to shine and others to find out about them and enjoy them.

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    • Here is my problem i dont have a issue with "other media" but this site has always been manga and by extension some anime. Movies and books and etc. Have always been apart of the information listed to a far lesser degree. Nobody is saying that the information cant be catalogued. Its the way in which it is done so that is a problem. The majority of users in this regard dont seem to get that simple issue. There are pages that can be edited specifically for that information. Notice there is no specific interest in editing those pages. They just want to load the pages they arent supposed to with information that we dont and have never included such information. There are primary pages for the movies and other media stuff. This isnt really the case with Star Wars were they have a official committee set up within the company the sets up what is EU and what is canon. In this instance there are authors that are not kubo who are writing information and simply cause he isnt saying anything either way thats considered a "rubber stamp" to alot of users who support this new other media info. All im saying is use the primary pages for those books or movies and call it a day. Every site handles their other media whichever way they want or dont want. Some dont handle them at all.

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    • Yyp

      I think it’s natural that people are looking for the new books & in time, the film as they are current, whereas the anime and manga are both done & naturally have declining interest as they are old news so to speak (albeit good news), whereas the story continues in some fashion in the books. I don’t know the answers to all of the challenges we may have, but there are some (small) concrete steps that can be taken.

      One is finding the content on the wiki. I’ve added the film to the nav menu and bumped them up the order, as well as split the books into databook & novel sections which should make it easier to find. Another is I suggest we add the teaser trailer for the movie on the main page and whenever one appears, a proper trailer. Maybe in place of the latest chapter/episode boxes which are now obsolete.

      Just as Bleach has grown over the years, I think the wiki should grow with it. The movie will introduce a lot of people to the series (and wiki) & a portion of them will move on to read the manga/watch the anime to find out what happens after wherever the movie leaves off. Hell, that should be an aim of this wiki going forward – get people coming here because of the movie to watch the anime and read the manga that we all love so much (and occasionally hate simultaneously!)

      On the content inclusion issue, I have always been of the view that the Bleach wiki should cover all Bleach content, regardless of its origins, media type, who fully or partially wrote it. I personally don't care if they're labelled non-canon/apocryphal etc, so long as they are covered by the wiki. Including it doesn't lessen the manga or anime content. I think the Bleach Wiki should keep up with the current offerings in the series.


      I understand if some people don’t have any enthusiasm for the film or books. Personally I have no interest in reading an unofficially translated summary of a book online – if I were to read it, which I would like to do (at least the newer ones) then I want to read an official translation that has the entire content & in paperback not staring at a computer screen which I do more than enough of as it is. For those reasons I have not read them & therefore am not in a position to add any content from them myself. Sad thing is I highly doubt they will be published in English, though if the movie is a success that might change, but the novels seem so far removed from the film I’m doubtful of that. So yeah, that’s why I tell people they can add it but I haven’t done anything on that front myself. But it warrants inclusion.

      How it is all packaged/presented, I don't have the answer to that. This may be worrying about a problem that might never occur, but when I’ve more time I want to see how other wikis have handled this sort of thing with the film (specifically if there are considerable differences between what is there now & how events unfold in the film with plot, abilities etc). Off hand I can think of Star Wars as Sun mentioned, but also the new Star Trek films created an entire new timeline with very different version of events from Gene Rodenberry’s Star Trek, which the wikis had to handle, there are bound to be other wikis in that boat and I’ll take any suggestions of wikis to look at (and encourage others to look at them as well).


      TL;DR cause that was way longer than I thought possible:

      I think we should include the novels and films as fully as we can. And it should be a goal of this wiki going forward to get people coming here because of the movie to watch the anime and read the manga that we all love so much.

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    • Of course the respective articles for the Novels and Films should be added. I am wondering if we should start developing Tabs for Films or for Novels or for Games in the individual articles for characters to reflect the information provided for these characters while still keep the main bulk of the Articles focused on the Manga and Anime with the Tabs acting as the branches of the other medias.

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    • All that is good points and i think similarly, i think the information can be placed its just were to place and currently that should focus on the specific pages for those novels and movies. Tabs might be a way of handling that as well down the line. I just dont see any point on having it disrupt the established content from the manga/anime that already exists on character and universe pages. There should be some type of separation but as i said that can come later. Currently as you guys have said making their specific pages known so that the information can be placed on it is the most important thing right now.

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    • Yyp

      SunXia wrote: Of course the respective articles for the Novels and Films should be added. I am wondering if we should start developing Tabs for Films or for Novels or for Games in the individual articles for characters to reflect the information provided for these characters while still keep the main bulk of the Articles focused on the Manga and Anime with the Tabs acting as the branches of the other medias.

      Tabs seems a good idea. I like it

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    • SunXia wrote: Of course the respective articles for the Novels and Films should be added. I am wondering if we should start developing Tabs for Films or for Novels or for Games in the individual articles for characters to reflect the information provided for these characters while still keep the main bulk of the Articles focused on the Manga and Anime with the Tabs acting as the branches of the other medias.

      Honestly, I wouldn't be oppposed to that either. It would be a good way to cover that material without adding too much on the involved character pages (especially Ichigo's). Each character that has had some substantial role in the movies, games, and novels would have the proper exposition, and we wouldn't have to worry about what gets mixed in with the main sourced material.

      The only issue I see coming from this is information surrounding the novels, since, like Yyp mentioned, there seems to be only unofficial translations. I myself don't know the full reliability from these translators (since we've traditionally used our own for clarifications on smaller issues, and Cnet and Ju-Ni for RAW translation), and I know that some of the editing traffic that has come from newer users are those who have seen these other pages.

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    • yea i would tend to agree, it virtually impossible to also properly reference such materials. Its also unlikely there will ever be a offical translation. Most of this stuff hinges on it being well received in Japan and considering the degrading of the fan base over there for bleach if the current content isnt received well they will scrap it all together. Also to take into account the live action movie isnt likely to cause a surge of bleach popularity. Ive seen these types of movies before. Gantz did it twice and Parasyte had one as well. While decent to be sure they dont really reach outside of Japan. Whatever hype they get begins and ends there. We would likely only see it via streaming sites. Its not gonna be some watered down pseudo ghost in the shell-like with a hollywood A-lister in the main role. Tabs seem to make sense but i think we should worry about that once the primary pages for the content is dealt with. Assuming that there is a way to reference that content properly.

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    • I'd love to be able to add the novels to this wiki provided everything can be properly referenced. They may not be canon in the strictest sense, but they're at least to an extent sanctioned by Kubo. While Spirits are Forever With You may never be added, I have some hope for the new novels, as reliable translations are actually being released. We did finally reach an agreement some time ago with adding 13 Blades information to the page on Shaz Domino, and I certainly think we can come to an agreement on content from the post-series novels if we put our heads together. It's not impossible to reference, it's just not as easy as with the manga.

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    • Maybe the wiki should have a discord channel.

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    • Why do we need a Discord? I'm sure i Have an old one somewhere ut many of the continuous editors don't use discord

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    • SunXia wrote: Why do we need a Discord? I'm sure i Have an old one somewhere ut many of the continuous editors don't use discord

      I guess you have a point there.

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    • I will set on up casually but no guarantees people will join it.

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    • Yyp

      Regarding the references, depending on the translations available - namely whether they note page numbers or are divided by chapter - we may have to consider referencing by chapter rather than by page. I think it is an acceptable way to go. It is not perfect of course, but I think it is preferable to leaving the info out. To be honest, it is not that far off referencing the anime by an entire episode, rather than part 1/2 of an episode (before/after ad break) or x minute of it etc. If the translations aren't giving page numbers then I don't see any other way.

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    • I would agree with that if push comes to shove. Are the novels in graphic format or just text??

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    • Yyp

      As far as I know they are text, though there are some illustrations.

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    • I haven't seen them, which I think some people don't realise can happen as we are not living in Japan. Japan is a whole different world even if we re fans of anime and such. It makes things like this difficult. Especially when compared to how Wikis based on say the DCU or Marvel or Star Wars. They have to deal with retcons and canon issues but we have those issues plus, the sources are Japanese.

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    • They've been floating around for a while, but detailed summaries of the novels are out there.

      https://blackbommer22.deviantart.com/gallery/63888112/Spirits-Are-Forever-With-You?offset=24 https://blackbommer22.deviantart.com/art/Beginning-of-The-Revive-of-Tommorow-557689653 https://blackbommer22.deviantart.com/gallery/63888076/Can-t-Fear-Your-Own-World-Part-I

      Also, as CFYOW is canon, events and characters from BOTROT and SAFWY are directly referenced, so that makes them canon now as well.

      Finally time to make articles on some of these characters/events, etc.

      <Mod Edit: No need to split the discussion>

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    • Before I say anything, I just want to throw it out there that I will always be loyal to the manga. I have always loved Bleach and it was one of the first manga I ever read.

      Now, as someone that lives in Japan, currently translates from Japanese to English and has read all of the Bleach novels in Japanese, I want to point out that the novels are all considered canon in Japan because one, in the few interviews Kubo Tite has been in, he has in several ways confirmed this. Also for the most recent light novel, Can`t Fear Your Own World 1, The author and Kubo Tite worked hand and hand together to make the book.

      I can fully understand why people consider them not canon, but please believe me when I say they /are/. The fact that Kubo Tite has done work for the novel and approved it should be good enough to confirm as canon. And in Japan IT IS canon.

      The reason why the books aren`t in manga form: In Japan the Manga Bleach was losing popularity and was forced to end sooner then the mangaka wished for. Kubo Tite wished to continue it somehow and so he worked together with the author Narita Ryohgo to create Can`t Fear You Own World 1. The second book in the series is already in the works and comes out in Japan this winter. All of this can be confirmed on the JumpjBooks Japanese website. The purpose of most of the Bleach light novels is to fill in gapes of information that the Manga was forced to leave out.

      Quick note: I noticed some people were asking if the light novels were manga, etc. They are merely novels (So just writing) with a few drawings drawn by Kubo Tite in them.

      The issue over the unofficial translations: Yes, there are only unofficial translations of the novels for English readers. And yes all the light novels to this day haven`t been officially translated, but that doesn't mean that we should exclude adding information about the light novels here.

      If it is finally decided that we can add information about the light novels, I would be fully willing to add that information.

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    • Sorry no the Novels are very much "Other Media" they are not canon as they were not written by Tite Kubo, they were written by other authors on his behalf which is very different.

      As far as I remember, I think there is a referencing issue here as none of it can be vetted without scans and commentary from our trusted translation team. While I would be fine with the information being added to the novel articles with perhaps Chapter references being used if the novel is split into chapters.

      As far as putting the information on the official characters pages then no I'm against adding it into the official Manga and Anime sections but I am open to have sections for the info or Tabs as I said before.

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    • SunXia
      SunXia removed this reply because:
      trolling reply, adds nothing to discussion considering anime only arcs are designated as such
      08:58, August 26, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • SunXia
      SunXia removed this reply because:
      removing messages related to rude comment
      09:00, August 26, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • SunXia wrote: Sorry no the Novels are very much "Other Media" they are not canon as they were not written by Tite Kubo, they were written by other authors on his behalf which is very different.

      As far as I remember, I think there is a referencing issue here as none of it can be vetted without scans and commentary from our trusted translation team. While I would be fine with the information being added to the novel articles with perhaps Chapter references being used if the novel is split into chapters.

      As far as putting the information on the official characters pages then no I'm against adding it into the official Manga and Anime sections but I am open to have sections for the info or Tabs as I said before.

      Did u even read what he said?

      Gimmekensei wrote: Kubo Tite wished to continue it somehow and so he worked together with the author Narita Ryohgo to create Can`t Fear You Own World 1.

      pretty much makes it canon and like i said it references other novels so they are canon as well.

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    • I understand the confusion, but really as someone that lives in Japan and understands Japanese I`m telling you that it /is/ considered canon by Japanese fans. Tite Kubo is currently taking a break following the end of Bleach, /but that does not mean the franchise is done forever/. Since the manga sadly ran its course, a few light novels have been released, including the most recent one, Can`t Fear You Own World 1. ITS STORIES AND DRAWINGS WERE SOURCED STRAIGHT FROM KUBO. If you don`t believe me, you can find this information located on English and Japanese websites.

      The author said in a recent interview that many of the novel’s scenes were created by Kubo. “Many scenes were based on directions I received from Mr.Kubo personally, I will do my best to be up to the task of extensively conveying the charm of Bleach even further!” [This is a translation of what he said in Japanese.]

      What more does Kubo have to do before you consider it canon? One of you mentioned that "Novels are very much "Other Media" they are not canon as they were not written by Tite Kubo, they were written by other authors on his behalf which is very different." So then does that make the anime Other media then? Does that make the live-action movie and the anime movies Other media then? The live-action movie is being made by other people. The anime and anime movies were made by other people. If anything, the books have had more of Kubo`s input then the live-action movie, the anime movies and the anime has had.

      You don`t have to like the books, but they are considered by many to be canon. For example, I`m not a huge fan of the Bleach video games and anime movies, but I don`t condemn them or consider them not part of the Bleach story. I understand that it`s difficult to sort out what`s canon and not, but if you`re willing to have pages about the Bleach video games and the anime movies, you should be just as willing to allow there to be pages about the light novels.

      Don`t let the fact that the light novels haven`t been translated into English affect your decision over whether or not the books are canon.

      Note: I`m not trying to be rude, I`m merely trying to prove a point. I wouldn't be defending the novels if I didn`t think they were canon. Please allow the Bleach fans to see information about the books. If the issue is that your translators haven`t seen the books, then I`m willing to send scans of my Japanese copies or send you copies of the ads for the books.

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    • Im sorry but something needs to expressed here. Whether its canon or not is only part of the issue. This site spent years being primarily manga and by extension anime based content that what painstakingly the work here has been on and thus maintaining the archive as such. We have provided for inclusion of movie and video games as well. The primary issues with the last books extends to references first and also the fact that the site is well within its rights to determine just as any site is how to handle light novel information. Including said knowledge is already good to go as long as its on the specific page for that novel. There are no current plans to have said information anywhere else. The point is to provide the information plain and simple. Hopefully that can be respected here [[1]] and here [[2]] as long as its referenced and properly written out as required by this site.

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    • Why the hell not make character pages for the new characters...plus It's already contradictory when Shaz And Izurus pages have novel content on it...

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    • I understand that the people in charge of the site here have to find the perfect balance and I do understand that the site has all rights to determine how to handle the light novel information. I`m merely expressing how I feel on the topic. Just a few days ago after finish reading all of the light novels, I noticed that this site lacked information on the books. So I spent the better half of the day adding information about the books (onto the novel pages), only for all of it to be taken down. It was explained to me why it was taken down and even though it was a bit frustrating to have all my work to go to waste, I understand why it needed to be done. That`s why I joined this conversation and gave a piece of my mind.

      If everyone ensures that the novel`s information is only kept on the novel pages, can we please have the information up? We could always include something on the pages that says something like, "It is still up to speculation whether or not these novels are in fact canon. Please consider this while reading the information about the light novels listed below."

      By doing that, people are fully aware that not everyone agrees that the light novels are canon. (Even though Kubo stated that the novels are canon on his twitter.) We can also insure that the information about various Bleach characters from the novels ONLY stays on the novel pages. That way we can provide the information while at the same time not disrupting the Manga/anime timelines.

      At the moment, this is one of the FEW sites that doesn't allow the light novel information.

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    • As i stated Gimmekensei i think it would be fine to place such information on the novel pages. I know Arrancar talked to you about that and i left him a message in the regard of this as well. But currently thats the first step we will take before we get into anything else.

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    • I completely understand and apologize for the trouble. If you and Arrancar agree together that it`s alright for me to add information just to the novel pages, could you please ask Arrancar to let me bring back what I wrote on the novel pages?

      Again, I apologize for any trouble I may have brought and thank you for everything you guys have done for the Bleach Wiki!

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    • Yea i would check with Arrancar to make sure hes ok with it as well. Also theres no need to apologize there is no problem, im happy that your engaging in a reasonable conversation with us about this cause we do need to move forward on this issue. My main concern has always been the preservation of what has been worked on so hard all these years. People of goodwill that want to help and understand where we are coming from is much needed.

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    • Sorry, I always apologize too much for the smallest things! XD I completely understand your concerns and will definitely take that into account. I have no problem helping and also I'll make sure I always respect the hard work all you guys have put into Bleach Wiki!

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    • Probably should have asked but I got a bit hasty...I err added the sketches and artwork from the recent novel and the Kira story xP Although tbh I dont really see anything wrong with it per se, they are properly sourced. If you guys are ok with it I would happily do the same for the others, I have all of them from TDSTS, WDKALY, and SAFWY.

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    • Don`t do anything yet until they say we can add to the pages about the novels. You can leave what you edited though, because the pictures you did post are from the book and were sourced.

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    • Are the new info gonna be added? Regardless if canon or not? I'm on of those people that want to know the key points of the novel, before reading it.

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    • I'm sure people on different sites have translated the Novels to their own capabilities. Anyone can feel free to add the info to the individual novel pages. The Admins want that to be done FIRST before considering what to do on character articles, whether to use an "Other Media" tab or not. This is an English Wiki we are not Japanese, many of us won't be reading the Japan only content.

      Novels are certainly not a new thing in Bleach (See Bleach: The Honey Dish Rhapsody for example) and I personally have no interest in them. I think people are just popping at the seams over them because the series is over as a whole, the Manga and the anime are cancelled.

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    • The manga was cancelled? I thought Kubo ended it because he needed to go into surgery? He had broken his shoulder tendons.

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    • Ended/Cancelled/No longer produced. The end means is the same. IT is clear he didn't have the time to end the story properly. We were denied any sort of proper fight at the end.

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    • Is not the same when some people want to blame someone for the ending. Things like that should only be cast aside as opinions, it raises flags otherwise, and I know that 95% of the fanbase 100% blames the editors of shounen jump. It leaves a bad taste on my mouth. Naruto had the 5 week notice of cancellation, but the author didn't waste panels and was able to give an average ending.

      Bleach was announced to end 2 months earlier, and has two more volumes than Naruto. The sales weren't great, but the reason it continued means something, and the info Kubo gave for the novels means that he had work to do and material for the manga. Kishi was given the opportunity to make a new manga sequel,Boruto. The reason Kubo doesn't have people helping him in his office, like others authors do, creates a red flag for a sequel. Is like an none existent interest on his part.

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    • Aw geez, I missed like this entire thread, lol.

      May as well throw in my two cents: I agree with Sal about putting up the novels' information on their own specific pages and making sure to note that their canonicity is up for debate - though I'd be willing to have that changed if we can get confirmation from an official translator like Adam that Kubo does consider these latest novels canon to his manga storyline (no offense Gimmekensei, we just like to be absolutely sure about this stuff). I also think characters who showed up in the novel about Rukia and Renji's marriage can get apocrypha sections similar to Harribel's on their pages about their involvement in that story, although I'm not quite certain about the characters in Hisagi's novel. Might have to bring that up with Sal.

      Also:

      AppleLord wrote: Is not the same when some people want to blame someone for the ending. Things like that should only be cast aside as opinions, it raises flags otherwise, and I know that 95% of the fanbase 100% blames the editors of shounen jump. It leaves a bad taste on my mouth. Naruto had the 5 week notice of cancellation, but the author didn't waste panels and was able to give an average ending.

      Bleach was announced to end 2 months earlier, and has two more volumes than Naruto. The sales weren't great, but the reason it continued means something, and the info Kubo gave for the novels means that he had work to do and material for the manga. Kishi was given the opportunity to make a new manga sequel,Boruto. The reason Kubo doesn't have people helping him in his office, like others authors do, creates a red flag for a sequel. Is like an none existent interest on his part.

      I'm not quite sure what spurred this, but Bleach has kinda been getting the shaft for years, even prior to the rushed and sudden ending of the manga. No anime adaptation of the final arc, always being pushed to the back of each weekly issue unless it had a cover page, etc. Might've been due to Kubo's comments on the industry and his editors, I really don't know, but it's not comparable to Naruto's situation (remember how they stretch out the anime for 2 years after the manga ended? Wewlad).

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    • SunXia
      SunXia removed this reply because:
      was previously told to keep discussion on topic
      19:15, September 15, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • A FANDOM user
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