Forums: Index → Watercooler → Possibilites

Post

Arrancar KidoEdit

If Vizards are able to use Cero and Kido, would it be possible for Arrancar to learn kido if taught.

Vizards = Shinigami with Hollow powers

Arrancar = Hollows with Shinigami powers

It sounds possible. —This unsigned comment is by Alphawolf000 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!

It does sound possible, but I doubt it. Cero are a small grouping of simple techniques. Kidō is a large category of more complex techniques. Plus a Cero is just a standard energy blast, it consists of firing a powerful blast of concentrated spiritual energy at the target. So a Cero is just composed of Reiatsu. Kidō is the technique that Shinigami use to focus their Spiritual Energy into a wide variety of magic spells that can serve many purposes, such as healing, defense, or combat. They are one of the four basic Shinigami combat forms. So in my opinion I don't believe that Arrancar would be able to use them. If they did I don't think it would be their forte. Remember, most Arrancar haven't trained and honed their abilities the same way that Shinigami have. They were given the power by the Hōgyoku. The power they had before that given to them by the Hōgyoku was from devouring others. So I would bet that they can't, but it's still a possibility.  ROBO ROBO731 23:53,1/8/2012 

No its not possible at all actually. Arrancar dont actually have shinigami powers. They simply seal their true hollow power/form into a sword that is a zanpakuto in name only, they then take on a humanoid appearance and that is essentially the extent of the "similarity" with a shinigami. A visored is a shinigami dominant being with an inner hollow that grants access to hollow powers. In truth Visored are more of a hybrid of the two opposites (shinigami and Hollow) then Arrancar are. The arrancar are therefore essentially far more advanced variations of a hollow. A Hollow has classifications determined about the their evolution. Upon becoming an Arrancar they no longer can evolve and therefore no longer part of the normal cycle of being a hollow. Visored can use hollow powers because they possess an inner hollow that gives access to those powers. An Arrancar much like a hollow doesn't have a culture or anything beyond a survival of the fittest mentality and power goes to the strong and those without fear ideology. Arrancar have Sonido, Cero and their unique hollow abilities. Shinigami have shunpo, kido, unique zanpakuto abilities. Its not interchangeable because arrancar are not truly the opposite of a Visored in the way you think. What Robo said is partly true, so it therefore isnt a possibility because they are far more hollow and not really any part shinigami at all.--Salubri (Talk) 00:16, January 9, 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Salubri, that's a good point. Arrancar aren't as much of a hybrid as Visored.  ROBO ROBO731 00:21,1/9/2012 

Arrancar have been shown to use kido-like powers, with Zommari being a notable example due to his powers being negated with bakudo. And if you think about it (this is a theory) a cero is also similar to kido as well, albiet a very simplistic type. "Cero" translates to "zero" in spanish, and has similar traits of a hado-based kido spell. Kido spells that shinigami use range from 1-99, so perhaps a cero is the hollow's version of kido, e.g., hado 0.Johnwayne ^(talk) 13:44, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

No, this is pure speculation!! Kido is merely how a Shinigami can manipulate Reiatsu, you cannot base something on the fact that Kido was used to defeat an Arrancar, that's like saying their Zanpakutō must be the same since they were used to defeat Arrancar!! This is wrong!! Kido is a Shinigami ability and Cero is a Hollow ability, separate abilities!! Arrancar are Menos Grande (Hollows) that have suppressed their powers into a weapon and thus resemble a Humanoid again and the weapon sometimes resembles a Zanpakutō and sometimes it is a separate entity like Starrk's!! These are not the same as Visoreds, which are Shinigami which have endured Hollowfication, thus have Hollow powers as well!! To think Arrancar are Shinigami would be like assuming that somebody like a Captain could have their Zanpakutō running around as a separate Shinigami person, which does not happen!! Arrancar powers are entirely different, always have been kept apart from Shinigami powers, this is why they have Sonido and Resurrecion, they are not the same!! SunXia (Chat) 14:02, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Thats not even speculation thats fan fiction. Kido-like is not kido. Zommari's powers are called such because the power can be blocked by kido, that doesnt make it kido. Kido spells are shown to block many things, saying kido-like meant it used reiryoku just like kido is fueled off of therefore it can reasonably defend against a similarly fueled ability. A cero is concentrated rieryoku all spiritual beings are powered by it and use it for their abilities that doesnt make them the same. That simply makes them spiritual beings. Shinigami and Hollows arent the same they are exact opposites. Kido is learned, producing varying effects via incantation only usable by Shinigami. Cero are instinctual by hollow. Hollow and Arrancar abilities are unique to them and not kido just inborn capabilities. Yes Cero means Zero in spanish and hollow flash in japanese. Cero double is Spanish for "Double Zero", Japanese for "Heavy Performance Hollow Flash"; Cero Sincrético is Spanish for "Synchronized Zero", Japanese for "United Hollow Flash"; Gran Rey Cero is Spanish for "Grand King Zero", Japanese for "Royal Hollow Flash"; Cero Oscuras is Spanish for "Dark Zero," Japanese for "Black Hollow Flash"; Cero Metralleta is Spanish for "Sub-Machine Gun Zero", Japanese for "Infinite Ammunition Hollow Flash". So your point is false and has no bases. Cero are simply attacks of concentrated spiritual energy as shown here many variations of cero exist unique to the varying arrancar. The name has no bearing, one because thats not how cero are classified and two because the japanese translation shows more explanation of its meaning. Your point shows a lack of understanding of the concepts developed in bleach altogether. --Salubri (Talk) 16:03, January 12, 2012 (UTC)

Wow, no need to be condescending Salubri, or deny statements I never made. I'm aware I don't understand everything about the bleach universe but respectful conversation can change that. I see that you're an admin and all, but don't treat me like the n00bs who ruin y'alls pages, because I don't, and won't until I've got all the facts straight. Please excuse me for not knowing the Japanese translations... I'm from Texas so I only speak english and some spanish, but thanks for the enlightenment. Aside from that I think we're about on the same page but you expained it better. The main tie I was trying to make was that kido and cero were similar in that they manipulate spirit energy, except that cero blasts are much more simplistic. Kido spells increase in sophistication from 1-99, so it's not much of a stretch to say that on a scale of 1-99 (in terms of said sophistication) compared to kido spells cero would be at 0, right? If not, that's speculation and nothing's wrong with that since that's what this forum is for.Johnwayne ^(talk) 01:26, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

The main issue is all that anyone has to do in order to find this information is read the site. The frustration level from people not doing that is great. Beyond that the source of the ability is the same but it is entirely different. Outside of the source of the power kido and cero are nothing alike. Cero regardless of its variation all does the same exact thing and is made up of the same properties. Kido is inherently different from spell to spell with different uses and within differing categories. One is natural and one is not. Hollow naturally use cero, not all shinigami know kido or have any skill at it when they do learn it. In regards its the not the same thing and just because the source of the power is similar the capability is not. They are race specific abilities. Just as Shinigami use Shunpo and Arrancar use Sondio, they both are high speed movements they are not the same though. Cero are force of will capabilities unique to hollow powers, you cant force of will a kido spell, it requires an incantation, a certain mindset, concentration, certain movements and preparation, certain conditions enhance its power and decrease the power, and sometimes a misstep can cause the spell to fail altogether and that is just talking about any one spell. Source doesnt matter and neither does the level of kido spell in this instance. It is about how it used and who is capable of it. Arrancar and Hollow do not possess shinigami powers. Kido is not the same as a cero. A cero means zero in spanish it has no number meaning beyond that simply being its name.--Salubri (Talk) 02:33, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Mmkay, I just re-read the kido (like the new layout) and cero pages and the info shows that variations of the cero have only been used by arrancar; not hollows or vizards. Doesn't this imply that the hybridization of the former hollows gave them a better mastery of spirit energy manipulation? Those variations (along with other kido-like powers gained by some arrancar) for the most part were shown to require all the factors you mentioned with the exception of an incantation unless you elect to count cero sincreto. My argument is that although those techniques (kido & blahblah cero) are named differently they are equivalent = spirit energy manipulation, differing SOLELY by who uses which. Something like how a hurricane and a typhoon are the same, differing solely by where they form. So when speaking in the realm of possibilities, should an arrancar gain a higher degree of spirit-energy mastery (which has previously been shown to happen with Nnoitora somewhat), it could be equivalent to kido-level... whether you call it kido or not is a mere technicality. GOD I keep forgetting to signJohnwayne ^(talk) 06:15, January 13, 2012 (UTC)

Your still not getting it. Your implying something that cant be implied. Some Arrancar have variation of a cero in how they attack with it but its still just a cero. The only thing different is the amount of power the cero has which like anything is depending on the power of the one using the cero. It is not kido-like in any form. Even if both kido and cero have similar power sources that doesnt make them anything alike. A car and a house can both run on electricity or solar energy but that doesnt make them the same. Also the use of the variations of cero are nothing remotely like what i described as the requirements of kido, you cant even make that case. There have been high level Arrancar and they have not exhibited that in any way and its not are place to discuss the possibilities of stuff that cant be backed up, hence why we have a speculation policy on the site. It has to come from established inflammation otherwise its fan fiction. Anything is possible but what you desribed is not backed by information in the series. only what is established in the series is facts and is only what we should be talking about. --Salubri (Talk) 07:30, January 13, 2012 (UTC)