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I deleted the two 'majors' talks about that chapter in the watercooler and moved it there
Hey-ya, while I'm on the wiki, I can't resist, I'm gonna put there something that came to me with the new chapter :
[As I already said in the tittles, the chapter is not even released into fanscan
so don't read below
if you don't wanna be spoiled
Well here's my theorie. Again, if you don't want to be spoiled, do not read this.--Suzumushi 22:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC) -- Lia Schiffer 22:50, 15 April 2009 (UTC) Mili-Ciensys Salubri 23:13, 15 April 2009 (UTC) Mili-Ciensys Salubri 23:37, 15 April 2009 (UTC) --Suzumushi 13:13, 16 April 2009 (UTC) --Suzumushi 13:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)
thats why he was taken with aizen or used his full power. he was just building up engergy this entire time. I knew that couldn't be it. like aizen would be an idiot and leave Hueco mundo unprotected with just Ulqu with 4 captains, and ichigo and company. its going to play out as everyone attacking yami at the same time. some will be batted around like flys and when they actually start getting the upper hand. yammi will do some big ass cero and try to kill himself along with everyone, but then nel will try to aborb it and end up killing herself in the process firing it back at yami, but i really hope that does not happen cause nel is one of my favs.
Yammy, the ultimate Espada, or the enemy of gigantic proportions? 20:06, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
Chapter 354's talk
Wow... just wow. That's just a bunch of crazy stuff down there. Yammy reveals that he is actually the 0 Espada? This brings the question: what exactly is he? I'm aware of the other thread revolving around this, but this isn't the only thing I wanted to talk about here. It also seems like the fight between Halibel and Hitsugaya is about take a new turn. I've been anxious to see her release for a long time. It seems like the attention is gonna shift back into the Fake Karakura Town for awhile now. I wanted to see that again, but not until after the Hueco Mundo team's stuff with Yammy and Ulquiorra was dealt with at least, and that's only half-done. While I would like to talk about how the biggest idiot in the Espada turns out to be the strongest as well, I'll get to that later. Personally, regarding the Hisugaya vs. Halibel fight, I think Hitsugaya should lose this fight though. No, I don't hate him, but Ichigo couldn't even scratch Ulquiorra's first stage of resurreccion, and he was in bankai and using his Hollow Mask. Assuming Halibel can't do Segunda Etapa (I still find it doubtful) as well, Hitsugaya still shouldn't be able to win... at least not alone. Maybe we'll get to see some of the other captains' bankai as well. Any thoughts? Arrancar109 05:50, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Well as you know I feel the same way about the Yammy thing I dont know how any of it really makes sense. It just doesnt add up for me. But I als o think we're doing alot of reaching assuming just cause he has the position that means something. It means nothing normally, Yammy isn't really smart and he might just have alot of strength. I think the Espada in general are cannon fodder, something set up by Aizen to distract or ware down the shinigami. I dont really think as smart and as he is, he actually believed the best of soul society would be beaten so easily by beings that cant be more powerful then him (considering how could he control them otherwise). As far as hitsuguya's fight Im sure he can hold up enough, i mean i know ichigo couldn't barely scratch ulquiorra but lets not forget as good as ichigo is he is not the most powerful in the series despite being what he is, if anything he's only as powerful or more so then the opponent he is currently facing at the time and then how powerful are they in comparison to others. Hitsuguya might struggle and might not i think it depends (even as a captain i doubt he has reached his full potential so its uncertain) if anything i think this would be a opportune time for the Vizard to make their appearance finally. After all they owe Aizen some serious pain. I really hope to see some more from the lesser seen captains and lieutenants. At the same time we have to recognize though theres a broader picture to this. Shinigami losing is kind of a danger to the support of the series. Its based around them. They are a fundamental part of the cycle of life, without them well existence is gonna become nonexistent the balance will be destroyed and that wont do any good. The storyline part isnt even so much about the arrancar as it is about Aizen and his plans set forth by them. Salubri 19:06, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I already am well aware that Ichigo isn't the most powerful character in the universe. I actually think some of the elder captains (including the vizards) surpass him in strength. My comparison of Ichigo's strength to Hitsugaya's comes from their opponents, not just states of power. Ichigo and Hitsugaya both fought against a 6th Espada. While in the living world Ichigo struggled with a powered-down/one-armed Grimmjow, he was able to get unusually stronger between then and his third fight with him and maintain his Hollow mask stronger. Hitsugaya fought against Luppi and was losing at first. In fact, Hitsugaya himself states that he was only able to turn the battle against Luppi because Luppi was distracted with other opponents and his attention was turned away from Hitsugaya who had time to build up a finishing move. I won't factor in the fact that Grimmjow easily killed Luppi (mostly because he was only recently treated almost after they returned to Hueco Mundo), but Luppi wasn't even an Espada until after Grimmjow was demoted. These and Hitsugaya struggling with Halibel's sealed form are reasons why I see Hitsugaya not winning against Halibel on his own. I actually only think he'd win if he got help from at least one of the other captains, and I think it is probable that one of them might help him.
As for Yammy... I myself have my suspicions of his newly revealed 0 rank. While it seems to imply that he's the most powerful, he said he was building up energy over the time he was inactive during the Las Noches invasion. This suggests to me that his level might not be set in concrete. Additionally, his size is ridiculous. He might just have pure power and strong projectile attacks in this form, but considering how large he is, he may not be able to maneuver very well in this form. Assuming his hierro isn't too resistant to the invaders' attacks, they might have a speed advantage over him, but I see them needing help with the still-aloof captains at least. I wouldn't count on the "releasing within Las Noches" rule saying anything about Yammy's strength just that. With the exception of the fact that Ulquiorra's been hiding his full power from Aizen, he seems to do everything Aizen says, including following this rule, despite him being away from Las Noches. Ulquiorra pretty much thought for Yammy and had to restrain him from releasing in the Human World, and Yammy has shown that he isn't very perceptive, nor does he think things through. So I highly doubt the Forbidden Release rule confirms his strength level. Arrancar109 07:05, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
I for one, would like to see one actually losing by themselves to one of the Espada.19:14, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
I see what is being said about the Yammy thing it does seem just too weird. As for the Hitsuguya thing it seems like everybody likes to discount him all the time. Least we not forget Ichigo wouldn't be defeating anyone if not for his Vizard powers, as he just doesnt have the much skill and experience yet. Hitsuguya is young but he obviously has lots of potential and like ichigo in the right circumstance when pushed to his limits he will come out and do his thing, after all he is a prodigy. Mind that they all have never really seriously fought arrancar up until this point, its all new to them, like fighting a hollow was when they originally became shinigami, they just gotta learn and get better. So I dont know whats gonna happen but im itching to see. YesMonarch 00:38, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm,like,freaking out! I didn't think that Yammy would be the most Powerful Espada,this hurts my brain. And About Toshiro-taichou;I think it's safe to say Some one will help him,unless Kubo wants people to stop reading... gohanRULEZ 06:42, 17 April 2009 (UTC)
Concerning the "10's" in question:
Hitsugaya activated Bankai against Halibel before she even considered releasing. She was then able to hold her own against him without too much effort. We already know that an Espada's Resurrección gives him/her an enormous increase in power. So, unless Hitsugaya has been hiding some previously-unseen form, a la Ulquiorra (although I find such a development absurd), he has already lost, and the only question is whether Hitsugaya is defeated outright or is bailed out by another captain.
As for Yammy, I had noticed earlier that even after the 9th through 4th had shown their Resurrección, Yammy had yet to do so. From a writing perspective, it would be ridiculously anticlimactic for the weakest Espada to release his zanpakuto only to be taken down by Renji or Chad alone. Also, since Yammy is rather large even in his unreleased form, it would be logical to assume that, like Poww, Yammy's size would increase dramatically upon release. I had a feeling his number would change upon release, and am very unsurprised that his "true" number is zero. Zooropa XIX 06:30, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
How the next chapter will happen?
I'm psyched to see how it will start. Chapter 354 was unusual.03:08, 23 April 2009 (UTC)
Ah... Just wanted to mention...
I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned this, and if they have I'm sorry for reiterating, but Ulquiorra said that the top four Espada weren't allowed to release their zanpakuto within the confides of Las Noches walls... And numbers aside, even if it is one through ten or zero through nine, Yammy's new number would mean that he is in the top four, and thus would not be able to release where he does, which was clearly within Las Noches.
In addition, it would also mean that Ulquiorra would have had no reason to break through the roof and release outside like he did, because if it is zero through nine, he would not have been in the top four... And Ulquiorra hardly seems the type to take unnecessary actions.
I'm not sure what this would mean or if it is even a valid observation, but... I wanted to point it out.Emmi11 19:02, 19 April 2009 (UTC) ~~
i dont think yammy is the strongest. hes probably trying to scare rukia and renji and chad. the dissapearing 1 is probly just a side effect of his release. as for halibel she will PWN toshiro since he got his ass handed to him by luppi who may not even be worthy of the espada title
Just A Side Of Looking Over 344.
The Espada are looking like a group of weaklings because Ichigo and the others are kicking butt. I don't really like Yammy. I would prefer ANYONE except for him to be given the 0 title. And It seems like the whole thing with his power, it looks like all for show. Also, I'm hoping Halibel wins, cause she's awesome. She's awesome because she's calcal, and that spirt move she did was wicked. [Not that I don't like Toshiro]and it's time for an espada to kick and haul some serious butt. GO HALBIEL! Espada22 23:25, 20 April 2009 (UTC)
Halibel hasn't even done anything but stand around and comment, we have barely seen her fight, how is she awesome. YesMonarch 00:38, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
halibel is cool i wish she was the primera. and she has big tits
anthonyandleeLMT:wow is that all you care about big jugs what a steriotype but just to let u know if u go onto google and write i cant remembeer the full title but write neliel and habiel ur kinda pic'll show up
I hope Retsu Unohana will fight Yammi, that woud be very cool. The other captains are weak from there battles (byakuya has his arm and leg hurt, Mayuris zanpaktou is broken and Zaraki is hurt, so the only captain who could fight against Yammi is Unohana.
Right, since we have to forum, let's put it to good use. What did you guys think of Chapter 380? Me? I thought that the fact the chapter ended with Ichigo standing in front of the garganta as opposed to him actually entering the garganta might indicate that in chpater 381 something might happen to stop him from entering the garganta. I also thought that Kenpachi made a very accurate observation about Ichigo getting beaten half to death a lot. He doesn't win easily does he? Tinni 07:50, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
I'm just sick of the fact that his bankai is supposed to make him incredibly fast and yet he's only ever done that speed clones thing against Byakuya. It really annoys me because there's no way that any of the arrancar except perhaps Starrk and Zommari are really that fast yet they are made so only against Ichigo to make it 'hard' or something annoying.
But back to the topic. I.... don't really tink so, I think him and Unohana will depart with no hitch next chapter. I just don't know whether we will follow them straight to FKT or stay with Byakuya and Kenpachi to watch the show against Yammi. I'm inclined to think the second option will be the outcome just because it makes a lot more sense to end the espada before beginning the final showdown against Aizen. BollyW 09:45, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
I thought it was a fairly good chapter. A bit of humour, plenty of dialogue & moved the plot forward a bit. I like interactions between Kuchiki, Unohana & Mayuri - a very different dynamic to when the Vizard were captains/lieutenants. And poor Nemu. Zaraki deserved to get hit like that. It was a very stupid think to attack Ichigo that way. As far as ending with Ichigo in front of, rather than entering the Garganta is concerned, it could be due to the fact that Inoue has yet to arrive. She is needed to save Hiyori after all. Unless Unohana can stick the two bits of Hiyori together and heal the missing bit. --Yyp 14:47, October 31, 2009 (UTC)
at last those lazy powerful beast the vizard are here!!!!!!!!!! wonawese no big surprise all talk about that in another topic, super chunky?! woooohhhhh that's some foul powerful breath to take out yammatos shikia, sad to see the dual sword captains go but eh sacrifice is necessary so long as there not DEAD dead, then id be p.o'ed, espada aren't dead yeah yeah we kinda knew that. any CLEBRATE 364 Finely THE STORY MOVES ON!!!!!!!!--Trippyfalls 22:09, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Ok so 381 is out and Ichigo is on his way to the Real World, which explains a couple of things to me. 1 the likelihood of Hiyori surviving is not good seeing as Orihime isn't coming back with Ichigo, which defeats the purpose of him going to Hueco Mundo to save her if he is gonna leave her there. 2. Unless Unohana has healing capability beyond the level that we have seen Shinigami being able to heal Hiyori is screwed, but even more importantly the real question would be why did Unohana choose to go with Ichigo, i guess we'll find out. 3. Ichigo is the only one that can defeat Aizen because he hasn't seen his Shikai which i find to be a ridiculous plot line personally. As good as Ichigo is i dont see him beating Aizen, as fluctuating of his power level is an issue as well and though he has the spiritual power level of a captain there is alot about captains that make them such and Aizen is one of the greater powered ones. Though on the other hand i've always thought that the key to beating Aizen is to get past his shikai ability. But it seems that the task is being given to Ichigo as he is the main character not because he is the best for the job, to date he has never killed anyone that wasn't a simple hollow nor do I think he is of the mindset and fortitude to do so, in that regard he is weak. Nothing short of absolute death will stop Aizen. Now his inner hollow would kill him but I think for once this issue is something Ichigo has to do with to resolve some things about himself, and find out if he is able to not just defeat but kill those who are his enemy. This is just from what we know about the situation though. I find this all interesting and we'll see what happens. Salubri 17:34, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
I agree in general. I disagree that Ichigo can't kill Aizen, I think if he can focus his reiatsu properly as he has done at times in the past, against Byakuya, Renji, Kenpachi, but only if he does that. It is true though that he is the only one who has not seen Aizens shikai who is potentially strong enough to do something with that advantage, Ishida, Orihime and Chad are all well too weak to scratch him even without shikai. Although I'm surprised that all the vizard have seen it, I would have thought some of them would have avoided it due to Aizen only being a vice-captain at the time. But whatever. I agree that Hiyori is probably dead, unless, as I have speculated previously, Unohana's bankai contains some extreme healing abilities in it. That wouldn't surprise me because Kubo is not in the habit of killing off good guys although now would be a good time to start considering it's the final battle. But I'm enjoying these few chapters, the lighthearted wit combined with the plot development and brief snatches of Kenpachi ripping up Yammi. I'd also like to hear the conclusion of Mayuri and Byakuya's conversation... BollyW 20:32, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
not mayuri sama
why did she call mayuri just mayuri? is this a problem with translation? Shiny-gami 19:39, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
- She did call him Mayuri-sama. It is just a poor quality translation by Sleepyfans - they never seem to include honorifics. Look at other versions and they have the -sama included. Unohana refers to Ichigo as Kurosaki-san, btw. --Yyp 21:48, November 5, 2009 (UTC)
- okay thanks Shiny-gami 22:12, November 5, 2009 (UTC
I really hope it doesnt all come down to Ichigo.. What a seriously bad way to end an awesome Manga. I believe Shinji will have to aid somehow, he was able to see past Aizen's shikai back when he was a Captain and we also havent seen Shinji's shikai yet. Unohana will probably heal Hiyori, though in my opinion good guys dieing never hurt a series, it just gave it more intensity that really, no one is safe. I really dont see Aizen getting killed anytime soon and really, it shouldnt and hopefully wont come down to just Ichigo + Aizen. I mean, how many people want to see what Yoruichi, Urahara, Yamamoto and such are still capable of. Vasto Lorde Espada on the way! KamikazeNewf 21:08, November 6, 2009 (UTC)
I don't know how things are gonna play out. If there really is some hidden Vasto Lordes but these latest chapters (381 and 382) pretty much laid out the path of making Ichigo the big almighty savior... again.. Til now, everyone was just wondering if Shinji was the one who was gonna end Aizen. If Yamamoto would burn some calories doing some fighting, I mean, real fighting rather than just dispatching a mindless weird creature thing into oblivion. It just seemed everyone else had a better reason to take the big bad head on, Ichigo is a good guy and the main character but had only so little to do with Aizen, Tousen and Gin. We'll see what happens in probably 3 or 4 chapters but it's gonna be a predictable outcome, unless the Vasto Lordes really pop out and have some fun.. Deimonos 15:12, November 14, 2009 (UTC)
There has to be something more unless T.K is getting tired and wants to end this, but look at Naruto that thing is like 470+ and still running. With all the hype about the Espada and how insanely powerful they are, the Gotei just picked them off like flies. Look at Yammy, the 0 Espada is getting rocked by Kenpachi and Byakuya as they bicker. I know Aizen is the main baddy but we need to see some other characters die off and things get exciting. Gin's badass factor shot up huge when he chopped Hiyori in half, come on - how many of you were excited to finally see a good guy get dinged off. So many before should have died, Renji, Rukia (300x), Chad, Ishida, etc. I know they are basically the main goodies, but seriously... would anyone miss Chad? The series is getting boring with the bad guys, their strong, but we always win, Ichigo saves the day, next baddies. Seriously, we need some spice! KamikazeNewf 21:09, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
I see your point. At least the part about going all "Inuyasha"-like, with one main villain and a lot of running around doing sidequests and doing fillers. But I don't see the "we always win, Ichigo saves the day, next.." comment of yours. Ichigo may have dropped a few guys on his journey but the big bad ones that had the potential to end the world were always non-cannon stories. Technically speaking, he's a half-shinigami/vizard with immense potential who got dragged in all this shinigami business after accepting Rukia's power in order to protect his sister. Then his friend Inoue and now, his town.. The whole Arrancar vs. Shinigami fight was very overrated. We had expected so much and except for a bunch of injured lieutenants, we didn't really see much going on til the Vizards arrived. I just hope things turn around when Ichigo gets back to Karakura Town.. Deimonos 23:50, November 19, 2009 (UTC)
I doubt he'll kill Hiyori, but he might. Also, Unohana says Ichigo is twice captain level, and Aizen also says that he himself is. That would make them equal (cept for the fact that Aizen's a couple centuries older and has way more experience). Aizen has to have at least a coulple of Vasto Lorde up his sleeves, coz the Zero Squad is entirely made up of captains, plus that Unohana hasn't even fought, old man Yama, Shunsui, Unohana and Ukitake haven't used bankai, and Urahara's group haven't joined in yet. And we know almost nothing about Ichigo and Ishida's fathers. Aizen has to have backup, or he'll just get owned. —This unsigned comment is by Spleencheese (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
Well the addition of Hollow masks by Tousen and likely Gin and Aizen was a nice flavor and addition. But certainly, it should take more then the three of them to take down the Royal Guard. I am adamant that some good guys need to start dying off, and Hiyori and now Shuuhei would be a very nice start. I really enjoy Aizen as a main bad guy and I really hope that Wonderwiess is the prelude to the strength of the Vasto Lorde and we get to see Wonderwiess do some serious damage. KamikazeNewf 02:27, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
I don't think that we will get to see Squad Zero until Sosuke calls out his "Vasto Lorde Arrancars" (I hope he has some but I'm not sure)--Captain Brooks 16:17, December 8, 2009 (UTC)
I think this chapter is pretty good for a lot of reasons. Great artwork, both with the stunning cover page and throughout the chapter in general. Great dialogue and some more insight into Tosen & his believes/motives Komamura seriously mangling Tosen's arm and the speed at which his Bankai moves was impressive, and ought to shut a few people up who dismiss Komamura without a second thought (sadly I know it won't shut them all up). I thought the teeth were a great addition to the mask, but then a resureccion? Very interesting. Anyway, what are your thoughts on it? --Yyp (Talk) 23:42, December 10, 2009 (UTC)
- I think it was a pretty good one, yeah. Can't wait for 386 (hopefully coming out tomorrow). Also, I expected Aizen, Ichimaru and Tōsen being vizards, bu the Resurrección thing just slapped my face. I didn't expect it by any means. I'm glad Komamura earns a bit of respect, too. I'm fed up of the same characters getting the focus always. I hope Komamura isn't finished at 386 (I won't reveal what happens there :P).--Lon-ami 21:07, December 16, 2009 (UTC)
It's crazy to think that perhaps Gin AND AIZEN have hollowfication and resureccions. Btw Komamura is a pimp for standing up to tosen like that especially when tosen became that freaky cricket hollow, and hisagi is a sneaky bastard. :)
The following was removed from the spoiler page's talk page. It has nothing to do with the function/maintenance/etc of the spoiler page, so I have moved it here. Any mention of spoilers here is due to the page it originated from - spoilers are not allowed to be posted anywhere other than the Spoiler Page. As this chapter has long since been released, it is no longer a spoiler.--Yyp (Talk) 16:38, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
Not much surprises here for me, expected tousen to get involved in the fight between aizen and shinji just thought he'd be cut in half the nusiance how unfortunate will wait and see if aizen reprimands him. Expected lisa and hiyori to go by harribel everyone loves the girl vs girl action. Hacchi to fight barrigan expected, love and rose to fight stark not fully expected, figured love would have gone and rose to fight super chunky, the 3 min mask thing for love is really wack did not see that coming after they were saying how short ichigo's mask stayed on for. this is were its getting weird now they allow sajin to confront tousen and then hisagi comes to maybe ensure he doesnt kill him, i said in an earlier post that if he does that i know kensei intends to kill tousen and if anyone gets in the way he will mop the floor with them cause the is mad powerful, then if that happens yammamoto has to get involved and gotei 13 so we going have a 3 way war. Now if Aizen smiles and says just like he planned it then i will give him some props but i still think he is a coward having people fight his battles for him. just finished read the episode here http://www.onemanga.com/Bleach/367/01/ or you can go to www.bleach7.com. shinji is just too funny love that guy, but i think the gal is mashiro i hope who is ever doing her page allows everyone to know how powerful she is, i was so surprised i wonder if tite did this because she doesnt seem to use a zanpaktou in fighting, couldnt beleive she told kensei she loved him lol but that superkick was amazing and how she flashed step in from of wonderweiss with him in shock, pretty amazing. i finally get to see the end of that meddling tousen once and for all, he actually attacked sajin, knew they was something wrong with him mentally eversince. i saw they confirmed aikawa love mask limit at 3 mins, not to sure about that yet, because he said we not I and all of their masks are off except for mashiro, so will wait and see in the next episode if they return, gin still isnt in a fight dunno what happened there but he seems to be setting the tone for aizens bankai, i believe yammamoto will take him on when that happens, will be sorry to see harribel go and stark cause 3-1 is not easy to overcome. barrigan can't die soon enough bossy old man, and kensei should finish off wonderweiss. question is when will he return to heuco mundo and follow up there cause byakua is healed and ready to go as well as mayuri and zaraki, unohana is also battle ready so if he wants to go with the plot line of espada zero the most powerful then i guess they will have to team up to defeat him cause his just massive now. hopefully no royal guard will come into play that should be another series in itself or do a filler showing what they are about to let people become familiar with them first.Shinji hirako 03:18, 23 July 2009 (UTC)
The following was removed from the spoiler page's talk page. It has nothing to do with the function/maintenance/etc of the spoiler page, so I have moved it here. Any mention of spoilers here is due to the page it originated from - spoilers are not allowed to be posted anywhere other than the Spoiler Page. As this chapter has long since been released, it is no longer a spoiler.--Yyp (Talk) 16:38, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
Ok I am physically sick from reading the spoilers. Not the Starrk being dead part, I am sad about that. He was the only espada I cared about. I am also not upset about Harribel being taken out so quickly, I have been wishing for this to happen for a sometime now. But with Gin, Aizen and Tosen on the battlefield... who knows what's going to happen! I am so nervous! Tinni 10:01, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure this'll be the last we see of them. It does seem awfully sudden to be getting rid of Harribel in particular. I haven't seen any graphics of it, so until then (when I know how they've bought it) I wouldn't rule out them coming back later on (Does anyone have them by any chance?). I reckon there was more to see of them, so it's a shame imo. But mainly.....IT'S ABOUT TIME! Gin and Aizen are finally getting off their lazy backsides and doing something more than hosting documentaries. TomServo101 11:00, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
- Unfortunately no. Apparently monday, tuesday, wednesday was public holiday in Japan and most of the shops were close. So the pool of people who provide spoilers is low to begin with. Only picture out there is the one showing Yumichka in the colour pages and mostly because there was some confusion as to whether it was Yumichka or Starrk. I'll try and track some down but don't expect anything any time soon. Tinni 12:03, September 23, 2009 (UTC)
- sigh* That'll teach me to get too excited over early spoilers. *sob* Seems like Gin, Aizen and Tosen might just be packing up and leaving! Tinni 14:13, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
- Wow, I actually feel bad for Starrk and Halibel. I mean, I loved Starrk, he was the only non cocky arrancar and he actually had a good reason for being with Aizen (so that he wouldn't be alone). On the other end, I would have been okay if Hiyori, Lisa and Toshiro killed Halibel, but not Aizen, that just makes me want Aizen dead that much more. Also, if Aizen, Gin and Tosen join the fray you can bet Tosen will be first to die. We have already seen his bankai which means he has little if any surprises left to show, so he'll be killed off quickly. Gin is the only one I want to see fight. Lets face it, Aizen is gonna pull out some god-like bankai that is gonna have the roleplaying godmods rolling in delight, but Gin....I actually want see his bankai. Ten Tailed Fox 14:50, September 24, 2009 (UTC)
Two more cool characters gone just to add more power to Aizen sama when will this end i wonder. Now where can the three rogue shinigami go now, yammy is left in release mode hmmmm, is he going to cut him down as well. He can't be going to take on the captains that are their, well the only thing left now is to use the orb of destruction on themselves and see if they ascend past everyone else, what a waste of characters guess he will be getting back to ichigo and hueco mundo now.Shinji hirako 00:52, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
This is the first time I've ever cared enough to read the spoiler section just to see what was going to happen to a character I liked. Poor Starrk. And than Harribel. I didn't think Aizen would just slaughter her himself. I'm hoping that Starrk somehow survived his defeat but I'm not hopeful.
I'm curious why Aizen would do this. Humiliation? He was pretty certain his arrancor could take the Gotei 13 and when they lost he had to eat his own prediction. Great Cthulhu 07:51, September 25, 2009 (UTC)
The following was removed from the spoiler page's talk page. It has nothing to do with the function/maintenance/etc of the spoiler page, so I have moved it here. Any mention of spoilers here is due to the page it originated from - spoilers are not allowed to be posted anywhere other than the Spoiler Page. As this chapter has long since been released, it is no longer a spoiler.--Yyp (Talk) 16:38, December 28, 2009 (UTC)
so accoriding to the spoilers it seems gin kills hiyori :( of all the protagonists kubo could of finally killed i would of hoped it wasn't one of the Vizards :( --RexGodwin 07:05, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
Actually it would appear she's very much alive when we leave her but in a state that Orihime is likely to be the only person to be able to heal her. It's cliff-hanger but no she's not dead. Far from it actually with odds being that Orihime will get there in time to save her. Tinni 11:00, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
Though it also answers the question as to whether Hachigen can heal like Orihime can; evidently he can't. TomServo101 15:39, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
Actually it seem the way around him being the healer in this situation was removed on purpose, as he has previously shown and stated as having the same ability but far more experienced at its use then her, he apparently needs both hands and he only has one, as the spoiler indicates that he looks to Hachi at first and sees that he only has one arm, then he thinks of Orihime as the only alternative.Salubri 15:46, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
I know he did it to Tsubaki, but has he ever used it again? Or on a, for want of a better expression, real soul? TomServo101 17:10, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
Aren't the Shun Shun Rikka a part of Orihime... like a part of her soul? Hachi said that he and Orihime have similar abilities, and I think that for a while, Hachi's abilities surpassed Orihime's, as he healed Tsubaki when she couldn't; however, I don't think that's the case now. Why would Shinji even ask Hachi if he knew he couldn't do it? I know that he's desperate any everything... Animeluvr92 18:28, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
You're probably right about the Shun shun. I just thought that as it was something quite small, it was much less difficult, and dealing with a large entity was beyond his capabilities (as his powers are far less specialist, at least up to now). As for Shinji, I'm not sure Shinji was aware at that point that Hachi had lost an arm, and coming with that realisation is an even greater need for Orihime's assitance.
BTW, have any visuals been released yet? TomServo101 18:51, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
No there has been no pictures released. What has been released is another full script but that's word for word what I put up in the spoiler section except for Kensai's bankai. Apparently that's a bit hard to describe. In terms of Orihime's healing ability, she can in fact do more than Hachi as was seen she could heal Ichigo's injuries from Gimmjow completely but Hachi couldn't. But they do have similar powers, just that Orihime didn't really understand her powers or the extent of her powers. Since meeting Hachi and getting the advice "It doesn't matter how things are, what matters how you want things to be" and being told by Aizen "Your power is to reject events", I think she isn't operating in the dark any more. So she can finally use her power to the fullest. Tinni 22:49, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
Ok, I just saw the pictures and let me put it this way... OMG how is Hiyori still talking! Tinni 14:36, October 8, 2009 (UTC)
Please note that discussing raws/spoilers prior to the release of a chapter in English is a violation of the spoiler policy. Any mention of it here is now quite old & no longer considered a spoiler.
Well I have to say I am happy and disappointed. One i am disappointed because Shunsui and Ukitake are my favorite captains and they had to get taken out like that. I mean i know they are ok, as old and powerful as they are they have possibly had to survive through alot. but i understand why they were taken out. Its time to showcase the Vizard and they can't be involved in this part. 2 im also disappointed because we didnt get to see them do anything like even fighting in shikai they seemed like they were holding back there is so much we never get to see. It'll be forever till we see their bankai now. Also the only captain we ever see go all out is Byakuya and Hitsugaya and currently Soifon and we still can't be sure their even showing us everything. On the other hand its time to get this long awaited battle started im so happy the Vizards are finally there. They have alot of questions to answer on their abilities and history so far so its a must see. Finally we can see the top 3 get owned properly then the warm up they did just to get to this moment. Hopefully they do not switch back to hueco mundo ill be so mad.Salubri 19:48, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Then I recommend we all run away from you. I won't be suprised if they switch to the Yammy fight just to annoy everyone (not just you!) TomServo101 19:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Just Read 364 in Raw just two words...HOLY SH*T! THIS IS ONE OF THE BEST CHAPTERS EVER! KUBO WAS BEING SLOW ON PURPOSE TO DECIEVE US TO THINKING HE WAS RUNNING OUT OF IDEAS! KUBO DOES IT AGAIN AND PROVES TO US AGAIN NOTHING IS WHAT IT SEEMS. THIS IS WHY BLEACH IS KING!(volume 27 in NA has been #1 manga on New York Times Manga Best seller for the last 3 weeks and #1 show on adult swim on saturdays for past month.) THE PACING WAS EXCELENT ART WAS TASTEFULLY DONE AN ABSOULUTE ENJOYMENT FROM START TO FINISH! I WILL NOT TELL YOU WHAT HAPPENED BECAUSE I DO NOT WISH TO SPOIL IT, IT'S THAT GOOD! OVERALL CHAPTER 5 out of 5 stars.--Lemursrule 18:38, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
>.> No offence but it was obivous the vizard were coming, he wasn't going to let the Gotei 13 and Ichigo's gamg have all the fun.Saimaroimaru 18:54, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Iw was obvious that the vizard were coming just when was the question. But Wonderweiss holy crap never underestimate the autistic kid(life lesson perhaps don't judge a book by its cover.) He pwned ukitake and shunsui freed aizen, tosen, gin, harribell and barragan in 3 PAGES! The real fight begins. I know that nel is ok she is talking with kenpachhi either in vol 38 or 39. But, I think Grimmjow is still alive. I think he will open the garrgantua a help Ichigo because he hates Aizen so much(kinda a throwback the Ichigo's early relationship with Renji.) I think Nel will get her powers back and we will see pesche and dondachakka's real faces(original masks were torn off.) I think nel and her fraccion along with Ichigo and the ganga and unahana will fight yammy and I think Orihime will just go off the wall and pwn yammy in the end(She does not have the will to kill, however she does have the will to protect.)--Lemursrule 19:05, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Who fights who?
About time the good fight starts. No offense to the Captians or ther fans at all, but Visored vs Espada screams AWESOME. My best bet is that Shinji fights Starrk, Kensei fights Barragan, and Love or Rose fight Harribel. Also, as Salubri stated, if they go back to Hueco Mundo that would suck, but at least it will the token fatty of the Espada Yammy out of the picture. Go Unohana. --Moe1216 19:58, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Shinji & Aizen is uber-personal, so IF the Vizard are against Aizen, I'll bank on that being one fight. Ditto Kensei vs Tosen (I would have said Komamura too, but it looks as if he's dealing with Superchunky or aiding one of the other captains) As for Gin....maybe the Viz'll take over the Harribel fight and let Hitsugaya have it out with him. (I hope...) TomServo101 20:06, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
Good point. Aizen vs Shinji sounds alot better, and Tosen vs Kensei sounds good too. The Gin vs Hitsugaya would be especially interesting to see. Ah, revenge on old squad members is so much fun to read. Though if that happens, you think the lieutenant visored will take care of the top 3?--Moe1216 20:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
It comes down to Power of Hollow mask vs Power of Bankai and which is greater. As the only official Vizard we've seen anything of fighting wise is Shinji (vs Grimmjow) so can't comment. TomServo101 22:28, 1 July 2009 (UTC)
True.--Moe1216 03:47, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
But if the Vizard and Espada and company square it probably would match up like this: 1.Starrk Vs. Rojuro or Rose Otoribashi or Shinji Hirako 2.Barragan Vs. Love Aikawa or Kensei Muguruma 3.Harribel Vs. Lisa Yadomaru 4.Wonderweiss Vs. Mashiro Kuna or Hiyori Sarugaki
Here is my explanation for these matchups: 1.We have not seen Rose display on of his powers and only saw Shinji's Hollow Mask and plus, I don't know know how the two would match-up with Starrk ability wise, but they would personality wise. (Rose's laid back attitude and Shinji's Sarcastic and Comedic undertones.) 2.Love seems like to be a up close and personal type of fighter and might find a way to get around Barragan's ability with his hollow powers. Kensei's Zanpaktou is long range and short to midrange attacking style. So that could be interesting. 3.Girl on Girl and plus the possible release of Lisa's Zanpaktou. 4.Wonderweiss is a unique character in terms of personality and how strong he is and his abilities. And plus it could be either Hiyori's Aggressiveness and Mashiro's Childishness and yet combat adeptness.
Just my Speculation. They could all be wrong.Heruga59 07:31, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I think everyone is missing something and their explanations of the match ups. There are 8 vizards and Starrk, Harribel, Barragan and Wonderweiss are only 4 so your forgetting the most likely scenario. Aizen, tosen and Gin are free and Aizen betrayed them all but its more personal for shinji who was his captan, just as its more personal for kensei because he was tosen's captain. Other then that i figure the match up could similar to this. Gin vs rose. Starrk vs love who seems a hardy fighter and hiyori to add in the double threat because Starrk is technically fighting in a double team. Barrgan vs. Hachigan using normal sword fighting and melee isnt gonna work with him, interestingly enough what Omaeda alluded to before maybe true kido maybe his weakness and since you cant get near him and kido spells are most commonly used at range, not to mention hachigan had developed time/spave manipulation spells which could counter barragans time dilation and aging abilities. Harribel and lisa there personalities seem to fit for a good old girl fight. Wonderweiss vs. mashiro because of childlike personalities they both have, makes you wonder if it will be an actual fight or bordering on completely innocent.
- 1. Aizen vs. Shinji
- 2. Tosen vs. Kensei
- 3. Gin vs. Rose
- 4. Starrk vs. Love and Hiyori
- 5. Barragan vs. Hachigan
- 6. Harribel vs. Lisa
- 7. Wonderweiss vs. Mashiro
Thats my thoughts on that.Salubri 12:58, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Wow I think people totally forgot about the fact tha aizen and the others where free. I like the match ups above though I think starrk and gin fights are debatable. But the others are spot on. Aizen vs shinji would be epic full on revenge. Tosen and Kensei revenge again and i would say ill give it to kensei. Lets be honest tosen got totally owned by kenpachi and if not for his bankai sneak attack he wouldnt have be able to take them out in the first place. Plus kensei is a former captain when tosen was just 6th seat, logic would dictate he was miles away from tosen skill, even though tosen is the highest known seat to have possessed bankai. Kensei's shikai is devastating to say the least and we have only seen two skills. not even bringing into the hollow abilities. Barragan and hachigan would be awesome. I fully agree on the assessment. Lets be real people totally discount hachi because he is big and not good at fightign per se, but kido may just be barragans weakness. Harribel and lisa now that would be worth watching for sure. Wonderweiss and mashiro would be to funny but real interesting the innocent seemingly autistic powerful arrancar vs the childish vizard (whose the most in touch with her inner hollow) that fight would be insane.TeamBleach2 14:09, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
You're forgetting the captains still in the fight. Where do Soifon and Hitsugaya (maybe even Koryaku and Ukitake) fit in?
Bit off topic, but does anyone know if TK and co. ever visit sites like this? TomServo101 14:28, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I dont think on this forum article but another we were talking in length about Ukitake and Shunsui being taken out of the fight before they did anything to fast (the general consensus being they wont play apart in the fight as the reason for them getting attacked the way they did otherwise they would be in the way of presenting the vizard), on the other not Soifon seems pretty worse for ware and she is likely all out of ideas at this point, lets be real she used her bankai which no one has seen and she never uses, that looks like she has done all she is capable of at this point. Then theres hitsugaya while he is still up and ready i think he would fall back realizing this isnt a fight he is gonna win with his power, though there could be reason to believe he might either continue, withdraw by yama's order after seeing who has arrived or might be incapacitated like ukitake and shunsui as it wouldnt be the first time. Yama wont probably get involved as we didnt really see his two best students do anything why would they show him doing anything. Komamura i think would be good vs the superchuncky thing with his bankai and big creature fighting skills plus u notice out of all of them he seem most interested in the thing, for more then what everyone else was concerned with. Other then that i dont know its anyones guess really.
Also I really don't know im sure he is way to busy as i recall him stating he rarely has free time. But im guessing he might have someone close to him a friend or company member that may check out all the official sites to see what they got on there. Wouldn't it be crazy if some the scenarios he liked he used. lol i doubt it.Salubri 14:38, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Who knows? If he ever has a case of writer's block....
I should have said this at the start, but all this is assuming they're on the same side, right? For all we know the captains could really be in the doo-doo if we're wrong...
Medically, yes, they're not really fit to continue, but I feel they're too proud/stubborn to back down (Soifon in particular. I mean, she won't use Bankai coz she's too proud) TomServo101 14:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
I think you're forgetting that a lot of the lieutenants are down and Shunsui and Ukitake received great injuries. I think Hachi will have to attend to them and heal them. And besides, this will suit him better rather than fight as we all know that he is a pacifist.--Agate genbu 15:07, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
See counting him out sure he could heal them but izuru is doing a decent job apparently. Also someone has to take on barragan who else can you cant even get near him or in his vicinity whatever is used has to be powerful and at range. Kido would have to be his weakness at this point. Hachigan maybe a pacifist but why show up at all if you arent gonna be of any help its like the orihime discussion all over again, she is more in the way and liability then anything she would be just support if she had the resolve. While hachigan was kido corp lieutenant so he specifically joined the academy to enter into military structure, he is a pacifist as far as using conventional fighting but its left to be determined if he has no problem taking someone out with kido. While also yes the captains are proud if yama said stand down they would plus soifon said herself if you cant beat your opponent fair stab him in the back so she is more inclined do to that. But whose side would they be on its clear their on their own side but they also hate aizen he almost killed them. So they would likely be more on soul societys side then anything. true enough the central 46 chambers screwed them over but the gotei 13 had nothing to do with that decision. Also its unknown if there is any ill will between the two factions as the gotei 13 apparently has nothing against urahara or yoruichi and tessi. Also the storyline would probably end if they weren't unofficially on soul societys side which counts against them as well. If aizen wins then the balance will fall apart and the world will be destroyed as shinigami are a necessity of existence. being former shinigami they know that, unlike aizen who is a power hungry, megalomaniac who cares less about others or the destruction and disruption he cause and only for his own plans for power.Salubri 15:27, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
Future of Karakura!
Now that everyone's dying or will be dying, finally Shinji and Co. came. All the espadas are ready and everyone is going crazy. I mean, this is just unbelieveable. How long can this go on? I have a question for any of you: What are your predictions? Who will fight who? Espada22 00:22, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, there are 8 vizards (discounting Ichigo), but apparently Rose is not in the picture... So thats 7 fighters (if Hachi can fight). Shinigamis left are Soifon, Komamura, Hitsugaya, Omaeda, Kira, Ikkaku (defeated but now ok right?), Yumichika (knocked out by kira?) and Yamamoto.
On the other side, theres Aizen, Gin, Tousen, Barragan, Harribel, Starrk, Wonderweiss.
Thats 15 v 7!! If you discount the lieutenants, you still have 11 v 7.
Possible match ups:
Komamura vs Tousen (feud between old buddies) Hitsugaya vs Gin (youth prodigies) Hachi vs Barragan (possibly only kido can do anything about barragan's abilities) Risa & Hiyori vs Harribel (cat fight) Yamamoto vs Wonderweiss and Superchunky Everyone else vs Aizen
Starrk too lazy to fight
I expect at most 1 match up to be correct. =D LOL
- Actually, Rose IS in the picture, behind Mashiro and Kensei, he's just not so visible. Anyway, we'll have to wait til' we see what Kubo has in store for us. Lia Schiffer 07:48, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
I think that Shinji will face off against Aizen for the obvious reason of their history. While Rose, Love, and Kensei VS the top Espada and Hachi will go and heal all the wounded. Then Risa, Hiyori, an Mashiro will fight Superchunky and I agree that Komamura vs Tousen will happen as will Gin vs Hitsugaya. Since all other captains are out of the picture except Yamamoto I think he will be against Wonderweiss for him taking out his favorite students (Shun & Uki) leaving Soi Fon injured but standing with the wounded watching like Komamura did. But I also think that Aizen is hiding some Vasto Lordes somewhere and they will come out and all captains will have to fight. Unus7484 14:06, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Where is yamamoto, chojiro and other capible fighters like hisagi? im curious because all of them are gaurding ichigo so im just curious about it Flamesword300 22:47, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
Well right now Kira is healing Matsumoto, Iba, and Hinamori, Hisagi is probobly too injured to fight, Yumichika was knocked out a while ago, and Chojiro rarely does anything. Yamamoto will most likely join the fight if he see's everyone having too much trouble against Aizen. TheDevilHand888 23:27, January 14, 2010 (UTC)
Extract from my blog post (In which Tinni tries to keep track of the climaxing events of the Arrancar Arc) regarding Shinigami not fighting,
- Unohana Retsu: Was suppose to be behind Ichigo but didn't immerge from the garganta with him
- Captain-commander Yamamoto: The general does not fight unless he has to. Yamamoto won't fight unless he has to, like he did with Allon when he was basically the only captain who could reach the lieutenants in-time... or maybe he just wanted to burn something.
- Kira Izuru: Still looking after the wounded
- Hisagi Shuhei: Seems to have suffered a mental breakdown at the sudden explosion of his captain
- Hacchi: Looking after Hiyori
- Iba: Wounded
- Ikkaku: Can't really do anything without revealing his bankai
- Matsumoto Rangiku: Wounded
- Hinamori Momo: Wounded
- Yumichika: Still unconcious and again can't do anything without revealing his true power
- Hiyori: Bifurcated
- Mashiro: pummeled
- Ukitake: wouned, near-death
- Chojiro Sasakibe: Back outside the barrier?
So yes, Yamamoto is not about to fight unless he has to and Hisagi was already at the edge of his endurance but forced himself past it out of sheer will power. But now... now he has suffered a mental trauma and well... :( Tinni (Talk) 00:23, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
anyone else see another black and white chapter coming up? I think there may be, but with 20 or so chapeters remaining it may be hard to do that. Shillagan 06:16, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
To prevent this thread being totally off-topic, I'll start with some thoughts on the chapter. It was pretty solid. Interesting first page with all the swords pointing at Ichigo. Aizen continues to be Aizen. I still don't like the mask Ichigo has right now. It looks rubbish compared to the half red/black one he had, and is a pale imitaion of the one with the horms (and slightly different shape) that the Lusty Hollow version of him had. Komamura continues to step up to the plate. He has been very prominent lately. And of course, the final double page spread. I wonder why Rose is standing like that though, when everyone else is facing Aizen.
- I think this could be very interesting. Hirako has already sealed his Zanpakuto so that everyone else can fight without being subject to Sakanade's ability, which would only play to Aizen's advantage, imo. Shunsui will have to be careful with the games he uses otherwise he could be a serious hinderance to the others too. There are a couple of rather large Shikai there too that might make working together awkward for some of them. Allowing Soifon to go in there with her Shikai could be very dangerous for the Shinigami & Vizard if Aizen uses his illusions to make people mistake one person for another. Yyp (Talk) 17:37, January 15, 2010 (UTC)
373: Wolves Ain't Howl Alone
Is it just me or is the ending really speculating? I mean, what is with the sword hitting Starrk? Who's is it? It looks like a bankai, but I don't know who really. I also think that Starrk isn't dead, because if he spilt his soul, then he can appear in any of those wolves if you think about it. To kill Coyote Starrk, then you need to kill all those wolves. What to do you think? User:Espada22 09:49, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
its ichigo's father. who killed him.. Eliskuya2 15:44, September 13, 2009 (UTC)
I think he thinks he was being funny. Twocents 02:44, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
I like the idea that you would have to put down every manifestation of Starrk/Lilynet/the wolves in order to kill Coyote Starrk once and for all. I like the idea better than a simple (or whatever that 'sword' is) backstab taking out the #1 Espada. Great Cthulhu 03:06, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
if Starrk dies. dose that mean Sosuke Aizen going be mad. if one of his Espada dies. he lost alot of his friends right? Eliskuya2 04:05, September 14, 2009 (UTC)
Aizen won't care if all his "buddies" die as long as he gets the big seat in whatever-the-Spirit-King's-hood-is-called. —This unsigned comment is by Spleencheese (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
I'm wondering, would'nt it have been more grammatical to name the chapter: "Wolves don't Howl Alone" instead of the original title.Heruga59 21:47, June 2, 2010 (UTC)
Chapter 391 The Blazing Glaciers is out and the tables have turned somewhat, with the usual cliffhanger at the end. Discuss your thoughts on it here. Some quick thoughts: cool that Aizen wrapped Love up in Rose's Shikai. Soifon was impressive considering how exhausted she ought to be at this point - and she made Ichigo's bankai speed against Byakuya look not quite so special. I'm a bit wary of Sleepyfans translations in places, but it was interesting and leaves plenty of options open. --Yyp (Talk) 16:16, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
Unreal.... 4 captain level shinigami's combine their shikai's and bankai's in order to catch aizen... However i dont think Aizen is going to have such a lame end... after all that Gin said about him..Kishen1912 16:23, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
I though is was a very cool chapter. I love the sinister smile that Shinji had after revealing his zanpakutou was released. I think that Aizen Zanpakutou may be a factor but if it is then I will just be irritated because I think this battle is beginning to be drawn out with all this action and non of it actually happening because of his shikia. I would like to see Aizen atleast hurt by the captains instead of just being invincible and Gin jumping in finally. Cant wait to see though great chapter. Tealang99 16:25, February 4, 2010 (UTC)
WOW that was fantastic!!!!!! I have had a real problem with Aizen's overpowering and this chapter reaaaaaally made my day. I'm sure that because of his ridiculous "only look at the release once and you're under the power forever" thing then he will miraculously be unharmed and smug a few panels into 392 but for now i am happy to think that he just paid the proper price for being a smug arrogant prat!!
again though after a brief glimpse last ime Gin dissapears from the equation, why is everyone so willing to take their eyes off him when he's already cut someone in half!!!! i cannot believe that they would all consider him so little of a threat as to disregard him.Nick D Wolfwood 08:15, February 5, 2010 (UTC)
i agree with most everything said here so far, and even though i agree that aizen is gonna pull some dues ex machina like his "bankai" or hollowfication similar to Tosen's or something. the only issue with aizen not being the real aizen is that as far as i know ichigo hasn't seen aizen's release so it wouldn't make sense if it wasn't the real aizen, and as for gin you know i honestly think what momo hinamori said way back when about gin controlling/manipulating aizen may very well have some credibiltiy behind it...that said i hope gin doesn't get killed, he kicks ass. —This unsigned comment is by Zimydoomy (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
If Aizen has done hollowfication on himself.. if he does a ressurrection his injuries will dissapear right ?? That will mean that the fight is still on... Kishen1912 17:24, February 7, 2010 (UTC)
What do people think about the last page of the manga where Aizen attacks the four captains? What I mean is, to me, it looks like Shinji's leg got cut off. Does it appear that way to anyone else? I wasn't sure if it was just a weird angle in the pictureWickeddancer9 20:35, February 15, 2010 (UTC)Wickeddancer9
You are mistaken. Shinji was slashed across the chest, he leg is fine. He merely folded it at the knee. The best scan out at the moment is Hueco Mundo crew scan. In that scan, you can see that Shinji's left leg is folded as he is clutching his chest. Only person to lose a body part this time around seems to be Hitusgaya, who seems to have lost a wing, part of his haori and most likely his left arm. Poor Hitsugaya but I do wonder what he did with Hinamori. Surely he didn't large Aizen while clutching Hinamori... unless she died and her body insta-disentigrated... To bad we won't know even half the answer until next week. Tinni (Talk) 21:21, February 15, 2010 (UTC)
Loved the chapter...Is it me or are we seeing more follow ups of Yamamotos Bankai? Personally if he could kill everyone with the Ennetsu Jikogu Imagine what hes going to do with his bankai should they ever reveal it....
Apart from that also seeing Wonderweiss now more Vasto Lorde-esque in appearance one could think that may be why he stopped the captain comanders shikai....If only they were made evry day :-( id know lol i cant stand one whol week of waiting!
This chapter was truely unexpected for me.. Well ok Aizen cutting the other captains/vizards wasn't, neither was the part of Yamamoto sacrifycing everyone but Aizen admitting that in a fair fight, he would lose... But ofcourse Aizen found the weak spot and pointed that, by only focussing on strength, it can be canceled by other strategies; in this case a modified arrancar who extinquishes Yama's flames. Pretty bad-ass and my respect for Yama for doing a Kenpachi-style on Aizen(letting himself get stabbed to be sure it's really the enemy). As for Wonderweiss.. I can get how he put out the flames but stopping Yama's blade with his bare hands kinda confuse me... Any opinions about the weird arrancar? Shinzawai 19:55, February 26, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think the Capt. Commander is going to go down that easily. I am glad he was looking out for Ichigo, but I am waiting for the defining moment that will make Ichigo over the edge again, letting us see Vasto Lorde Ichigo versus Aizen. I think the Capt Commander is going to use his Bankai, and battle Wonderweis before we see this though. I really want Byakuba and Kenpachi to return from Hueco Mundo to see if they have any interaction. I am also hoping that Orihime returns, launching a huge heal on everyone, and have some sort of counter to Aizen's zanpakuto. —This unsigned comment is by H00chi3 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
I thought this was an excellent chapter, kubo has been on a roll as of late as all the chapters have been just brilliant. I loved seeing Yamamotto manage to get by Aizens illusion and i loved how he called him "boy". As for wonderweiss i think its brilliant to introduce his ressurection as a counter to ryujin jakka, no-one expected it and it was a great way of showing us aizen vs yamamoto without having yama lose outright. I do wonder what has happened to Kensei though, i mean if wonderweiss is now fighting yama it indicates he lost doesnt it. GinIchimaru 14:25, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
As for Kensei vs Wonderweiss, I wonder if Kensei wasnt so much defeated, as WW saw that Yama about to unleash his fire on Aizen, So WW came to stop him. Just an idea. - LockeVenture 9"08, Feb 28, 2010 (please someone show me how to sign properly at the end)
Lockventure; you can sign posts by typing "Captain Brooks 16:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)" (four of those squiggly lines) or click "signature" at the top of the template. Also I think WW rushed to Aizen sama's side and that Kensei is now after him. Captain Brooks 16:14, February 28, 2010 (UTC)
I must say this chapter shows why Yamamoto is the CC. He is heads and shoulder above Shunsui and Ukitake. Most captains would have been finsihed or near the end after those many arms came out or after their zan abillties negated. Another thing, as of now I repsect Yamamoto as a character, unlike like his subornates who would act like newbs after having the zan abiliities taken, Yamamoto recognized that the zanpakuto isn't the only thing a Shinigami has. Also on WW, it explains why he acts so dumb. He gave up intelligence for that anti-fire abillity. This is confirms that whenever a hollow goes through shinigamification they have some measure of control of where their power goes. Though it comes at a cost as we see with WW. I wonder what Zommari gave up for his speed, Sanity? I wonder for Ulquirrora for his speed regen.Saimaroimaru 16:34, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
Too true for Yama showing he is in a completely different league to the other captains, the difference in power is massive and his handling of the situation in general has been great to read so far. However i don't agree with the rest of your points on here. As for his subordinates not being able to deal without their Zanpaktou abilities. Kurotsuchi for one beat Sayzel after having his Bankai negated, in fact he came out the fight without a sratch on him. Byakuyka has shown in the manga and the recent anime filler that he is more than capable of fighting with Kido alone and Zaraki never fights with any special abilities. Maybe Toshiro would be instantly owned if he had no zan powers but the rest are all very capable still. Also I'm pretty sure that Ulquiorra stated in his fight that most espada gave up their high speed regen for additional strength but he decided to keep his. Nick D Wolfwood 16:55, March 4, 2010 (UTC)
I thought this was one of the less exciting chapters of recent, but i still enjoyed it. To be honest im abit bored of the arrancar, as a plot device they were helpful but i mean i kinda wish it would move on from them now, i think we all know that aizen has planned something for when all the arrancar (incl.WW) are defeated and that will be good to see. Though i think the fact that its been mentioned wonderweiss lost all his memories will be important in some way, for instance it may turn out he is a person from yamamoto's past or an old ally thats been manipulated, or perhaps not. What im dying to see is Gin get involved and even more so to see Unohana get involved... there must be something special about her if she is the last captain to fight. GinIchimaru 17:19, March 5, 2010 (UTC)
Great stuff from yama-jii... It was sort of expected.. The captain commander who has held his position for more than 1000 years cannot rely purely on his zanpakuto and fight... But there is something i want to know... where in the name of god is kisuke and co. ?? Anyone have any ideas ? Kishen1912 09:51, March 8, 2010 (UTC)
True you have a point. I still think hes head and shoulders above any of the shinigami you've listed so far. Next chapter better be good.Saimaroimaru 03:59, March 9, 2010 (UTC)
Well Yama keeps going up and up in my estimations. Definately got the Zaraki Hardcore view of taking on an opponent, no wonder he took it apon himself to try and train him!! I feel the whole introduction of Yama as an opponent has really shown Aizen for the flawed character us "haters" have so desperately wanted to see. No matter what he has tried Yama just keeps coming to f**k his day up and He really seems to be out of ideas now. Just as Aizen stood all smug as his last ditch failsafe on WW seemed to work Yama pulls out the level 96 destruction and BAM Aizen AGAIN has a look on his face like he literally cannot believe the old man is still going!
As for Ichigo's appearance in the last panel i can imagine what will happen next (SWAT) but somehow i see this being his moment to shine. The new mask is on and i'm 50/50 on whether he's just going to suck and blow again now. Maybe the Aizen nearly blew up FKT and a huge chunk of the surrounding area means that good ol' Ichigo resolve which makes him able to take on an opponent, die and the deux ex machina a win out the situation (Kenpachi, Byakuya, Ulquiorra etc you know the drill) will finally be there.
Well once again the man who has gotten away scot free with cutting another being in half is apparently not in the picture. and everybodies favorite ex sqaud 12 captain is MIA but lets see what the future holds. Nick D Wolfwood 09:03, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
I liked this chapter since Genryusai gave Aizen sama a run; but I wonder how Genryusai is doing, it seems that hado 96 had some backlash on even him. Captain Brooks 12:30, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
Nice posting Nick... Suppose Aizen really did get injured out of yama-jii's hado #96 and ichigo seems poised to give the finishing blow, what the hell is Gin doing?? Another unanswered question is what happened to kensei ? he was fighting with WW and all of a sudden WW appeared near yama-jii. And yes as you said everybody's favorite ex squad 12 captain is still MIA... the creator of the hogyoku is missing when the time of its use seems to be so near... and it seems as though Yammy, Kenpachi and Byakuya's fight has been forgotten... the likes of Rukia, Renji, Chad, Orihime and Uryu have become close to non-entities for the past many chapters... It is highly unlikely that a finish without the attendance of these many main characters will take place... any thoughts ???? Kishen1912 16:07, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
- Yes Nick with all the plans Aizen made he seems to underestimate others thinking his power or plans are greater. It turns out using Wonderweiss was mostly impractical as he turned to be useless for his initial purpose, though the fail safe was interesting. Good Post, i try to stay away from forums but i immensely enjoyed this recent one. You see how sick and powerful the captain-commander is finally which has been long overdo. The messed up part is that there is still so much more of him to know or to see and we will have to wait along with everyone else we know little to nothing about. It should be interesting. As for Ichigo's appearance to me it signals a change in focus for the ending of the arc. There are about 12 chapters left as Kubo will be taking a week of for Golden Week as he and most japanese do every year. Assuming that he doesn't take off another week and he only goes into the first week of june and not the third. That would leave about one chapter to clean up and maybe two-three to finish with Yammy, Kenpachi and Byakuya. Gin will enter somewhere (We suspect) so say a 2-3 chapter fight with him and then a 4 chapter fight with Aizen. This is just an assumption based on the scale of wrapping it up, but we will see. Salubri (Talk) 17:03, March 11, 2010 (UTC)
.. To put the chapter in a nutshell, Aizen's words shock Ichigo to the point that he is confused and can't believe anything Aizen has just said... give him some credit, he actually remembered Aizen's words on top of the sokyokou hill (given ichigo is not really shown as being intelligent like Ishida)... Aizen again shows his power by blocking Ichigo's bankai barehanded... and papa Isshin interrupts Aizen before he is about to reveal some game changing secret...
Now the questions are, what is it that Aizen was trying to say? Does Isshin have any role to play as per Aizen's grand scheme or is he some x-factor? where on earth is Urahara Kisuke? care to add people ? Kishen1912 08:24, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
I wonder if Isshin came at that time to stop what Aizen was saying. And one other thing that bothers me this time around was Ichigo's power lvl is doing that up and down thing again, how strong do you think Ichigo is that this point of the story line? LockeVenture 14:19, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
Personally, I want to see how powerful Isshin is compared to Aizen, considering Aizen even managed to incapacitate Yamamoto, arguably the most powerful soul reaper in Bleach. Though the way Isshin mention how Aizen talks too much, it makes me wonder if they had met before and he knows about Aizen's hypnosis. Wolfram445 21:36, March 26, 2010 (UTC)
I thought Aizen was gonna say that ichigo was born as a shinigami and a hollow from the beginning... but we don't know for sure. As far as Ichigo's power level, this chapter pretty much hints that Aizen has been rigging ichigo's fights so that we wouldn't die, somehow or another. Johnwayne 13:42, March 27, 2010 (UTC)
Yes I thought that Aizen was about to say Ichigo was born from a shinigami and hollow too. It would make sense that Ichigo gained the hollow powers and his power potential is much higher than the vizards. It may also be the reason Ichigo never saw his mother since childhood? Maybe Grandfisher was a part of his mom?
Some other questions I am wondering is: Where is KENSEI and UNOHANA? Kensei went bankai against Wonderweiss and then it was just dropped so what's he doing now? And everyone says Unohana is one of the most powerful captains so maybe she should fight Aizen? Or maybe go Bankai/Shikai to heal everyone? Though possibly she might not be as strong as aizen since i was surprised how easily Shinji and Kyoraku got defeated by Aizen (i.e. with an unreleased sword) and how Aizen can still block Ichigo's sword barehanded lol... UnknownKido 07:16, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
I for one am thoroughly bored of listening to Aizen explain how he set everything up!! i mean it's common for the big boos in a series to be the architect of the protagonists reason for fighting in the first place but seriously Aizens apparent hand in EVERYTHING Ichigo has done right up until getting there is just so much bull it's unreal!!! i could go on for days about Ichigo's near misses when it come to dying (did Aizen plan that Rukia would stop Byakuya killing him after his first fight with Renji, or did Aizen plan that Kenpachi and Byakuya would show up to deal with Yammy?) and it REALLY bugs me that Aizen is apparently already god as he can plan the future though conciously manipulating the actions and wills of everyone! I think it's all bravado and Aizen is psyching Ichi out. Shinji mentioned that one of his best skillls was to psyche out opponents before taking them down and that is why Isshin stepped in, just to shut him up!!
As for Ichigo and his power level, it does seem that ever since he came back from SS all he has done is suck and die a lot!! When fighting the captains, there was always this feeling that he was capable of beating the captains one on one if only he could tap his potential as a shinigami. ever since then he has had the snot beaten out of him by every single opponent until the hollow has deus ex'd him a win, or someone else has intervened. the single only fight he's won of his own accord is against Grimmjow, and then he immediately got pummled by Nnorita and was saved by Kenpachi then he AGAIN died when fighting Ulquiorra (the fight record being Ichigo dies twice against one opponent and still scrapes a win!!) and the hollow saved him. I think it's important to note that when he put his new mask on and used Getsuga for the first time he barely nicked Yammy whereas Kenpachi was slicing and dicing all over the place. that means that even with his new power he still isn't as strong as the squad 11 captain.Nick D Wolfwood 08:51, March 30, 2010 (UTC)
I didn't got bored when listening to Aizen talk about how he planned everything, maybe i found it too convenient for the plot but personally it was "ok". I can't believe yamamoto finally died and that Ichigo's dad appeared to stop him the moment Aizen was about to reveal critical information!!!! Btw I want Gin to fight alredy! - Kaorufest
I dont think Yamamoto died he is just 'hurt' at least for now. Caucasaifro 15:12, April 1, 2010 (UTC)
Yamamoto used a sacrificial kido. He sacrificed himself. Unohana can't do anything. Only orihime can bring back the dead but she's in hueco mundo. Finally a bleach character has died even if it's only temporarily until orihime comes to FKT.Renshiro zaraki 00:45, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
So what I'm wondering. (I'm looking at page 398 at onemanga.com) Is it Aizen that states "...and they're related?" Because if that is true, then it puts a few holes/concerns in this Aizen knows all theory that I and a lot of other people have. Maybe it is just poor translation, that's what I'm chalking it up to, but if it isn't, how would Aizen know so many things about Ichigo from the moment he's born and yet not know that Isshin is his father? Anyone able to enlighten me? Orionradar 20:33, April 5, 2010 (UTC)
Yeah, it depends on which translation you get (I've started reading each chapter from at least three sources and comparing them) and in one of my sources the line is "Opening the distance...? Wise tact. Lineage is it?" as in, the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. He's talking about how Ichigo fights like his dad. --Kulash05 00:04, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
Different translations in Ch399
I was just reading different versions of Bleach Ch399 and found that this particular line (when Ichigo was talking to Gin) has been translated differently:
Chinese: "I don't know what you were looking at."
They all have slightly different meanings. The complete sentence in Japanese was: あんたにはそれがなかった あん時のあんたは俺と戦ってても俺のことなんか見ちゃいなか った何を見てたのかまでは知らねえけどな. Just wondering which one is more accurate. SakuraKarakura 17:20, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
- Cnet is a far more reputable translator than mangastream or sleepyfans (whose scan onemanga has up). His translation of that was "I didn't feel any of that from you. You may have been fighting me back then, but you weren't paying me the slightest bit of actual attention. Though what it was that did have your attention, I couldn't say." --Yyp (Talk) 19:37, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
Alright, thank you for the clarification :) SakuraKarakura 20:52, April 9, 2010 (UTC)
I must say I love Gin's Bankai, it runs the theme theme as Byakuya; an enhanced version of his shikai. I can't wait for a clear picture of it next chap and lol on Aizen using Raikoho.Saimaroimaru 14:49, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
I agree with that... a lot of people seemed quite annoyed that Gin's Bankai was basically just his Shikai but longer, but I quite like the idea. Think it would be nice to see some special abilities or forms like Byakuya, though. Snappydog 15:09, April 11, 2010 (UTC)
Gin's not the longest zan? The thought of zan longer than 8.1 miles is scary. On the side noted I hope Isshin releases shikai with the new power Aizen is gaining. It seems Isshin is stronger than Aizen with the hoygoku now doing its thing it seems the advantage will go to Aizen's side again. Saimaroimaru 08:41, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
O for crying out loud! Must people read too much into everything! It was just a freaking off-hand comment! What Gin was getting at was that his zanpakuto being able to extend to 13km was not what made it special. What makes it special is how fast it moves. Which really makes me wonder about the time he fought Hitsugaya and was ordered to kill Rukia. I mean, clearly he wasn't intending to kill Ichigo and that's why he moved Shinso at a speed that Ichigo could block. I guess with Hitsugaya you can say that he wanted to put Hitsugaya in a "save yourself of save Hinamori" situation that Hitsugaya didn't pick up on until he dodged but Rukia... surely he could have killed her before Byakuya got their to save her... meh! Maybe he just wanted to make her see Shinso coming, but whatever the reason, it is clear that throughout all of SS arc, he only shot shinso at full speed (or close to full speed) once. When he cut-off Jidanbo's arm. Tinni (Talk) 09:19, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Exscuse me for having a different opinion than yours. I'll believe what I want too. I'll just lol to your posts from now on.Saimaroimaru 12:48, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Gin in my opinion has one of the greatest Bankai's ever. Though I do think that there is a misunderstand of the speed. Gin claps and soon after says 500 times. I have read many people saying in the forums then that Gin's sword moves at the speed of sound which is 340.29 m / s. Then Why does he throw in the 500 comment? Maybe I'm misunderstanding but I think its 500 times the speed of sound. In Gin's info page it says "To demonstrate to Ichigo the speed at which Kamishini no Yari can extend, he claps his hands once, and declares that in that time, the sword could have extended and retracted 500 times." To clear a distance 500 times, it would need to be 500 times the speed of sound. Frankly with a speed like that I don't think he has been used anything close to full power. Expect maybe one time and that would be the bifurcates Hiyori . There is no panel of her seeing the blade coming, in fact in the panel the blade and her legs are quite a distant behind her. Also Saimaroimaru, no one has hinted in all the manga to have a sword longer than 8.1 miles. Tinni is saying exactly what this chapter told us. Gin's greatest attack power comes from speed not the size. And on a side note, Tinni is the Gin expect at the moment among many forums. One of the few fan girls that is fair in the way they talk about Gin. To LOL at all of her posts is just going to make you look like an idiot. Sorry Tinni for adding this part. LockeVenture 13:06, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
- Thanks! Well I hope I am fair. Anyway, getting back on topic, yes there is a lot of confusion about Gin clapping and saying 500 times. Hopefully when some better translations come out, the situation might be clearer. Mangastream is fast and all but they don't have the best translators. Tinni (Talk) 13:30, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Lol.Saimaroimaru 18:46, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
Another thing I enjoyed about this chapter was Aizen saying he had reached the limit of his death god side. Now I understand a few people are mad because Aizen took out 6 Captains and Yamamoto with only a few injuries that have healed already but Isshin in only a few panels pushed Aizen to a limit. I think this is great because Aizen isn't a god, and I think the fights before did take a toll on Aizen and now Isshin pushing off of what the others did. Which is grand because it means what the others did, wasn't a total waste. LockeVenture 15:35, April 15, 2010 (UTC)
After this chapter I am starting to understand what going on. It adds up and answers some questions. Also it seems Not only can i break down the shinigami/hollow barrier but also what is seperating the royal dimension from the rest of the world. Just how did Kisuke make and find the material for the creation of such an object, the hogyoku seems to have some form of sentience.Saimaroimaru 06:36, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
This is mainly why I try to stay away from the forums. Just so you know the speculation policy specifically says no crack theories. Im not sure what chapter your reading cause nowhere did it remotely say anything about separating dimensions or the relevance of what the item is even made of. Lets stay within the realm of the series instead of making up things or this forum will be deleted.Salubri (Talk) 06:44, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
Excuse me for having a thought. forget it, I'm done.Saimaroimaru 19:18, April 22, 2010 (UTC)
Basing my thoughts off the latest chapter (401), I have a few random thoughts/questions about what Aizen said (in the version of the manga I read). He said the hogyoku has the ability to both annihilate the barriers between heaven and earth (generally speaking, pg. 16, 17, or 18)) as well as the fact is has a mind of its own to basically bend reality and make whatever IT as well as the people in its vicinity want to happen happen (if they possess the power to achieve their goals that is (p. 10)).
Now when he heard this Isshin was VISIBLY upset (but we don't yet know exactly why). Again, I assume it has something to do with Ichigo that we don't know (I'll still contend that Ichigo is of royal blood (direct decendent of the King of SS through his mother). But how that will tie into Aizen's plans I don't know.
The Questions I have are...a)what do you think is happening to Aizen at the end of the chapter, it LOOKS like hollowification but I don't think it is.
b) Who's desires are being manifested, Aizen's? The Hogyoku's own? Or some version of Ichigo's we have yet to know/understand?
c) What does Isshin know that we don't that has him so upset just at hearing that Aizen knows more about the Hogyoku than everyone else?
We know Aizen wants to get to the realm of the King and needs a King's Key to do so, but if my assumptions are correct, the Hogyoku will be able to bend the dimensions (between earth and heaven) for Aizen in such a way to make it possible (hence why it is so vitally important to Aizen). I have a few other questions, but I don't feel like writing them out...this will work for now, I'm just interested in hearing other reader's theories on these. Orionradar 18:06, April 22, 2010 (UTC) to question a i think its just some random new transformation. number two i say aizens plans are mainly. and three because isshin and kiskue both know something about ichigo that only aizen does as well =..gin doesnt even know i dont think and i think its something bad.lordaizen20 3:02 april 22, 2010
I honestly believe Aizen is keeping his true mission under raps. Primarily because Aizen's power is almost absolute, so what does he have to gain if he pulls a coup on the King? Absolutely nothing. He already has control of Heuco Mundo and the could have easily taken down Soul Society, because he nearly did it earlier in the serious when he left with Kisame, and Orchimaru. He's Even taken down a majority of the captains in SS who attribute to most of the power within the Divisions. In the end it all deals with Ichigo's inner power or w/e trait he has. Aizen has risked all 10 Espada even Ulliquiora who is arguably one of the strongest and intellligent characters in the serious all for the growth of ichigo's powers.
Lastly it's gonna come down to the relationship between IIshin and Urahara. This is the key factor in the upcoming chapters(KMS ONE)
Damn does Aizen love talking crap. I just want him to actually use the power, not talk about. And Gin, fucking do something for god's sake. Ishino isn't doing shit either. I hope the next chapter some good action happens. (btw where the f**** is Yammy?) --Kaorufest 17:41, May 3, 2010 (UTC)
Well, on the japanese version (the original one), the 91th hado is write 千手皎天汰炮. For the english version on Onemanga, the translator choose to cut in 3 groups of 2 kanji (千手 皎天 汰炮) and translate "Thousands hands bright sky cannon".
Isn't it better to cut in 2 groups of 3 kanjis (千手皎 天汰炮) to translate "Thousands brights hands heavenly cannon" ? Ju gatsu mikka 23:04, May 4, 2010 (UTC)
so pretty good chapter..does anyone think aizen is dead??lordaizen20
This is a very interesting chapter. I'd like to find out the relationship between Urahara and Ichin. A no Aizen isnt dead, he prolly absorbed all of his reietsu to complete the final from of the hyugoku transformation.—This unsigned comment is by Kmsone (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
no Aizen is not dead. the smoke will clear and he wont have a scratch he will be laughing. later Urahara will say something like. they have fused into one now so the only way to destroy him will be to destroy the Hogyoku Darkgoku07:03, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
Aizen has to at least be injured. depending on the scan, it either says brutal kill or imprisoned and killed. destroyed by his power makes sense. thats the way most arrogant baddies die in the end. Werd1345 17:37, May 9, 2010 (UTC)
Aizen even bigger ego? As noted by Urahara to a degree the old Aizen would have never let him complete those kido. To me Aizen after "Subdued" the Hogyoku has a bigger ego.Just want we need.Saimaroimaru 09:29, May 5, 2010 (UTC)
I must admit I am impressed. We got more shikai abilities from Kisuke and hado #32. Isshin using Getsuga Tensho is interesting. I'll wait for next weeks chap before posting my theory.Also what is with Gin telling Ichigo to run, is he really a bad guy.Saimaroimaru 20:04, May 27, 2010 (UTC)
i thought zanpakuto abilities and effects are unique to each shinigami.... so how come Isshin can do it? Just because he is Ichigo's dad or something? —This unsigned comment is by Butterchickenshinigami (talk • contribs) 12:07, 28 May 2010. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
i just don't understand some of the abilities. I understand Shibari , but Hiasobi, what exactly does it do? Does it explode stuff on impat with the blade? and the explination says volatile material. What volatile material? Can somebody explain Hiasobi Benihime and Juzu Tsunagi? —This unsigned comment is by BenihimeShinso94 (talk • contribs) May 28, 2010 at 05:08. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
i just don't understand some of the abilities. I understand Shibari , but Hiasobi, what exactly does it do? Does it explode stuff on impact with the blade? and the explination says "volatile material". What volatile material? Can somebody explain Hiasobi Benihime and Juzu Tsunagi? i just don't understand some of the abilities. I understand Shibari , but Hiasobi, what exactly does it do? Does it explode stuff on impact with the blade? and the explination says "volatile material". What volatile material? Can somebody explain Hiasobi Benihime and Juzu Tsunagi? BenihimeShinso94 05:24, May 29, 2010 (UTC)
Volatile means explosive. Shibari as we have seen when used with Hisaobi is explosive. It essentially turns Benihime's capture ability into an attack by making it explosive. Juzu Tsunagi is the trigger for the explosion.Saimaroimaru 17:50, May 30, 2010 (UTC)
well, has anyone seen FTB, i that, kisuke used a technique that blew everyone back (intro scee against the squad 2 memebers). His nake ability is like a gesuga tensho, but neither explode ppl away. Could his attack have been hiasobi benihime?BenihimeShinso94 02:25, June 1, 2010 (UTC)
No that was his Nake offensive ability. Since it has shown he has to stab whatever he is adding Hiasobi to.Intro scene? Also his nake attack has shown to be able to change shape which is shown against Yammy, Ichigo and Wonderweis..Saimaroimaru 03:18, June 7, 2010 (UTC)
Interesting more training for Ichigo.Next chap maybe we will finally know why Isshin knows GT. Nice.Saimaroimaru 11:31, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
i wouldn't count on it for him to show a lot in one chapter maybe the final Getsuga Tenshō has to do more with his bankai form then anything else zangetsu hasn't taught him any bankai technics just the one move for his shikai which the hollow used with his bankai then ichigo started to spam it left and right
i have a theory that, once ichigo and isshin get there, and start fighting, they'll start losing, and then, all the captains and vizards and kisuke and yoruichi will appear. heres the plan: they go bankai and take aizen long enough for whatever plan they cooked up to take out aizen can go through. it gives a chance for peoples zans to be shown, and it prolonged the series. Though i know it sounds weird, thnk about itL they'd get salughtered, but it sounds like something TK would do to me BenihimeShinso94 18:55, June 11, 2010 (UTC)
My theory is that Isshin and Ichigo will lose, and just as they are about to die , the royal guards show up :D And that they were called there by Gin xD that would be somthing to look forward to :)Momo Bei Fong 11:28, June 15, 2010 (UTC)
The whole chapter has made me double-take! Isshin talks about how Zanpakutou spirits change when entering their Inner World while in Bankai. Tensa Zangetsu becomes a younger, more aggressive version of his old (literal and metaphorical) self. I'm still surprised by the fact that the father carries a Zanpakutou with a moon-based name. I checked a few sites and the Kanji for his Engetsu is 三日月. It translates to 'Crescent Moon' which makes sense, since its ability is the same as Zangetsu. Aizen has now reached the location of Karakura, and people are waking up. This will be so cool to watch when it makes it onto television.
No it was Tensa Zangetsu who said that Isshin stated that Zangetsu will be violent much like his Engetsu previously.ReapingyourSoul(Say What) 14:46, June 28, 2010 (UTC)
I don't know I think it would be someone a bit stronger if it is going to be that type of character I mean Aizen took out every captain in the gotei13 that was there. I don't think a quincy is really going to be able to do a whole lot. I'm thinking it might be Tessei he was the captain of the Kido corps and both Urahara and Yoruichi have made an appearance and he has yet to be seen. —This unsigned comment is by ShinraTensei (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
That's true, but Tessei was defeated by Aizen in the past already. On the other hand, Ryuken's strength is still unknown. —This unsigned comment is by Zero62422002 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
remember that Zangetsu said he didn't like it when it rains? now the whole inner world is submerged - this means he is very upset right now... this is due to the fact that Ichigo was convinced that he is unable to defeat Aizen. this is the despair Tensa Zangetsu is speaking about. another point of Tensa Zangetsu's upset is that he shares his inner world with Hollow Ichigo, and because the hollow part ichigo is gaining strength at a much faster rate than the shinigami part of Ichigo... and Zangetsu might have reached the conclusion of Shinigami Ichigo will loose the battle with hollow Ichigo, which could be bad for the justice Ichigo is following Panarama 07:50, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
Maybe The Shadow is Don Kanonji? It looks a little skinny to be Tessai..OR!(I just thought of this) What if Its Ururu? In like her Genocide mode or something like that Zanderthagreat 18:55, July 1, 2010 (UTC)
What about Mizuro...in the official character book, part of his description says 'He has a cute face, but he's actually a ????' —This unsigned comment is by Bleachguy (talk • contribs) 06:00, 2010 July 6. Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
- I've got a few ideas, any of which could not be more speculative than other characters. I'd also like to state just because we see one foot doesn't mean there aren't others behind this character...
- Grimmjow - The purpose of why he'd appear is uncertain, aside from a mutany against Aizen. So far we only see an outline, so it's hard to determine exactly what type of shoe this character is wearing...but if it's Grimmjow, he'll be there to give his life...for Tatsuki? No, for his own cause? Yeah...but at least it will buy Tatsuki time for Ichigo to arrive. Closure isn't a bad choice on Grimmjow's part for Kubo, of course he could have other plans...
- Tessai - A very powerful character that doesn't even arrive with Urahara? Certainly he wasn't "put to sleep" like everyone else and he probably stayed behind as a last defense just in case Aizen actually did get inside. Of all the ideas, he is the most likely considering his position...which means we get to see action out of him if he is the mystery man/person.
- Byakuya and Kenpachi - These two I see having returned after defeating Yammy (which we may or may not get a panel for if it is them) and well...they'll provide their own defense against Aizen. Always wondered what Kenny would do against Aizen...but I don't see these two as LIKELY canidates (is Kubo going to write off Yammy as a mere "killed in the meantime" character?)
- Spirit King/New Character/Hikifune - Though the need for the King to appear himself seems unlikely, I'm so anxious to see him! What if he IS that powerful that he could put Aizen in his place...but...is that a good character to test Aizen's abilities or just to kill him off? As for a New Character, seems like the only way to do that would to have him/her appear and hold off Aizen effectively...but despite whoever arrives (that we have NOT personally seen yet), to have them get their ass kicked now would NOT be a move I see Kubo making. So I am definately leaning towards a known character, such as Tessai who can probably test Aizen's abilities...letting us know what he's capable of until Ichigo arrives.
We'll see tommorow anyways! I'll probably wake up about the time it's released anyways ;>_>TVthePunisher 07:54, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
Looks like Zanderthagreat got it right! WinterFox 04:23, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
i will be really dissapointed if Don Kanonji shows any real power in order to fight Aizen.
i believe it would be a mistake, to give a significant power to a funny character, he is not part of the plot so he should stay out of the fight. i don't want to see him fight Aizen, just like Kyoraku, Yamamoto, Yoruichi, Ishin, Urahara and the others which represent a great deal for the
- but we will have to wait for a week for that. have a nice day. Panarama 08:26, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
- No one else thought it was hilarious that it was don kanoji? I thought it was pure comedic genius. Jordanbobordan88 15:16, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
i cant belive it was don kanoji! don kanoji brings back the HILARIOUS COMEDY,both gin and tatski were dumbfouned by him —This unsigned comment is by Blazeboy619 (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
1. However, Rangiku to intervene let's say to Aizen and Gin's help is surprising... it's a nice turn for the character and for the story.
it remains to be seen if she is under hypnosis or she does this out of her own will.
The new betrayal, or a new hoaks (remember the so-called betrayal of Byakuya in Muramasa incident !!) but i doubt that Aizen can be tricked as easy as Muramasa (smarter, stronger and better planner)
this is a great plus for this Chapter.
2. On the other hand the confrontation between Don Kanonji vs Aizen Gin Rangiku lust last long enough untill Ichigo defeats the Zanpakuto-Hollow unification (it would be a HUGE surprise if he didn't). Therefore i believe to be logical for Don Kanonji to have some more aces down his sleeve ...
3. when zangetsu says that Ichigo didn't even hollowify properly it means that he didn't follow the normal, Vizard way to put his mask on. I thought that Zangetsu would be upset for leting his hollow powers develop so far. It's obvious that hollow ichigo is stronger that normal Bankai Shinigami form of Ichigo ... but when the two of them merged !!! that's amazing.
I don't believe the other Vizard had this kind of strugle.
How difficult do you think this battle will be and do you think he will win it ? ... Panarama 21:26, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
When I read the latest chapter, I didn't see it as Rangiku coming to Gin's and Aizen's aid. WinterFox 03:03, July 12, 2010 (UTC)
Uhm. I know the policy says don't discuss unreleased chapters, but...it's out. I hope I'm not breaking any rules here.
Anyway, this one absolutely blew my mind.
I don't know, that last page showed Aizen's chest peeling open pretty bad...I doubt unless he pulls a quick slash that Gin's in any trouble. Though I don't recall Gin saying the poison would paralyze him...TVthePunisher (talk) 00:34, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
That was a pretty sweet chapter, i gotta admit. I think that all those really lame previous deicide chapters where just about nothing happened have been almost redeemed just because of this chapter. Of course, that means TK has to follow up with another awesome chapter, which i doubt will happen.....
I also think that this is the only reason why all those chapters were named deicide, just to lead up to the epic Gin's betrayal, but now i'm confused as to what'll happen now if Aizen doesn't pull out some cheap trick like "haha, i can do such and such that makes me even more freaking ovver-powered-" and sliced Gin in half..... Any guesses, anyone? Wolf Fang (talk) 02:46, (UTJuly 30, 2010C)
That was one of the best chapter since Ichigo and ulquiorra fight. My question is Gin now who's side is he on now. KJTheKing
Aizen might not pull off a deus ex machina this time. Gin pretty knew what Kyoka Suigetsu was like, its mechanisms and everything. Despite the fact that Aizen had gained haxxor powers and everything, he still took a bold move. Even if Aizen suddenly comes back, Gin'll probably see it coming anyway.
Three questions however open up:
- "Was Gin really working for the Gotei 13 all along?"
- "Is Gin after the Royal Key himself?"
- "What does Gin REALLY want?"
I think chapter 414 has been one of the most important chapters so far. All this time it was made out that Aizen was the big invincible baddie, but now we've got Gin crashing the party and pretty much screwing him over. Judging by Gin's explanation of his Bankai's true power, I'd say Aizen's on the way out, and I don't think he's coming back. I agree with the idea of "Deicide" referring to Aizen's death, and I'm thinking things are going to be very interesting in 415. I'm also skeptical about Matsumoto. I think Gin's got more of an attachment than he's let on, but Kubo may be taking drastic steps and killing off a few of the Gotei 13 for kicks. Either way, the next few chapters are gonna be good. LintMint (talk) 05:56, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
If Aizen dies it is not for sure that the next chapters will follow Gin's actions. Ichigo and Ishin are hanging in Dangai for some time now, and they will leave only for the next fight (maybe with Gin, who knows .... ). In HM the two captains Byakuya and Kenpachi are in the midle of an important fight. So i don't believe the next episode will follow Gin but should go back to HM.
However i don't believe that Gin will turn out to be a good guy ! i'm not sure that he killed Matsumoto but it doesn't fit the "scenario" for him to return to Soul Society's side.
Allthough he managed to deceive Aizen it doesn't mean that he is such a great strategist as Aizen prooved to be. By my opinion Aizen shouldn't die just yet ...as he didn't explain what was his plan with Ichigo, he raised our curiosity just to leave it to that. The fact that Aizen is feeling "a little sick" at this time doesn't mean that the Hogyoku cannot heal him.
I wonder how he understood KyokaSuigetsu's flaw? there are small to no chances at all that Aizen told him - so he either guessed by himelf and took his chance now or he touched before the sword and reached this conclusion....
It's too soon to say Aizen's been deceived. For all we know, Aizen may still have the upper hand over Gin. We'll see what transpires in the next chapter. Aizen's bankai hasn't been revealed yet anyway. Peaguy (talk) 23:48, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
That's a fair point. I think it's more likely to go back to Kenpachi and Byakuya, but it's hard to come to an accurate conclusion. I wasn't necessarily saying that Gin was a good guy, more that i think he just left Matsumoto alive because he has an attachment to her. I think he's going to become a very big threat to Soul Society. Aizen will most likely be around for a while yet, but like I said above, he's on the way out. As for Kyoka Suigetsu, it's been established that Gin was a child prodigy. I think that's enough grounds to conclude that he's a pretty smart guy, and considering he spent a lot of time with Aizen and regularly saw him in action (while as a Lieutenant and after leaving SS) he'd have a pretty good chance at working out how to beat Aizen. LintMint (talk) 10:00, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
Here is my speculation on why the Chapters are named "Deicide". You must know the definition of Deicide (a lot of people have been getting it confused with "Decide") Deicide means the killing of a God. Basically Aizen often indirectly refers to himself as a god and has the god like persona and complex. And Gin's bankai name is Kamishini no Yari which roughly means "God Killing Spear" which might allude to his betrayal against Aizen, there is at least a reason why it would be named Deicide. I think Tousen also wanted to kill aizen. Think about it: They were probably the Top candidates for being able to kill Aizen.
1.Gin knowing his Zanpaktou's weakness 2.Kaname being blind thus not being effect by his Zanpaktou
and the classic saying: "Keep your friends close and keep your enemies closer"
This is just my opinion but do you remember Tousen speech in Chapter 385: Vice It. He goes on saying Revenge is the ultimate form of justice. I believe that was indirectly pointed towards Aizen.Heruga59 (talk) 12:29, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
Gin actually said that over the last century plus, Aizen had let that single sentence regarding his sword's weakness slip just once to him. So Gin knows, assuming Aizen wasn't lying...again, what the swords abilities are. Personally if Aizen pulls another "I'm awesome" move...AGAIN, I'm going to shoot myself. But for Gin to perform a lie within a lie while also masquerading within another lie which he had previously been lying about? I'm pretty sure he is as smart or smarter than Aizen. The only way we can know for sure if Gin, on a power basis, can actually face Aizen, even in his current state, is if he can actually feel Aizen's reiatsu, and idk if he told Ichigo or mentioned if he can.Bishonen Pimp (talk) 17:27, July 30, 2010 (UTC)
I dont think Aizen will go down that easy. We havent seen his Bankai, although the Title "Deicide" (to kill a god) and the name of Gin's Bankai (Kamishini no Yari: God Killing Spear) bothers me cause I'm an Aizen fan. —This unsigned comment is by Kuneho (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
Personally, me and a friend were discussing this last night and we drew two questions from it.
1) Is Rangiku really dead?
Personally, I believe not. She's got no real reason to die. We think Gin has done something to her to make her presence disappear. We also speculated that this may have something to do with Gin's plan as either maybe she was part of it and thus allowed herself to be "killed" so that Gin could stab Aizen or that she was against it but Gin didn't want to kill her at that time.
Our second question was
2) Why has Gin done this?
We drew two conclusions as to why he has done this and one possible outcome of this situation. One conclusion was that Gin has been working with Soul Society as a double agent for either Yamamoto or Zero Squad to help bring down Aizen (though this won't be a successful attempt as too much hasn't been resolved yet). The other was that Gin has set up his own organisation of a new breed of enemies we have yet to see and that up until now he has been waiting for the right time to weaken Aizen so that he could start his plan. The outcome of this (most likely leading towards the first conclusion) would be that Aizen is able to put Gin under a state of heavy hypnosis that Gin can't break free from. —This unsigned comment is by Stalydan (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
I know it's really, really, really, really unlikely that Gin is working with Soul Society (I mean, look at what happened to Hiyori) but I think it'd be cool if he was. Probably one of the most unlikely things possible, but it'd still be cool. I agree with the theory of Gin removing Matsumoto from the battle, it seems to fit the nature of their relationship. LintMint (talk) 08:49, August 1, 2010 (UTC)
About Chapter 416 - do you think there is any chance that Gin will not die after all ?
We have seen Rangiku to be presumably dead but instead she was just knocked-out... Gin was a bit of a good guy in the end.
Next question : how will Ichigo aproach Aizen now that he has probably learned the Final GT? I don't believe this technique will scratch at all Aizen ... if it does that would be a gross exageration! After he overpowered Gin he couldn't be defeated just by a big bad blast from Ichigo. Most likely pretty soon there will be a U-turn in the story , as Aizen should be far too strong for anyone to beat him, including Yamamoto!
Thirdly: Aizen didn't get to kill the Karakura students that he planned so Ichigo will not reach that great anger to make him pass the next power level.
As Bleach Wiki biggest Ichimaru Gin fan I certainly don't want him to be dead. However, let us look at things logically here. Firstly, does Gin have any further role left to play in the manga? If so, how? The way things are going, it seems that the only thing left to do now is for Ichigo and Aizen, who has finally reached his transcended being status, to duke it out. Aizen has his bankai left and once he releases that, that's it. Both Aizen and Ichigo are at full power, we have our big Shonen battle and... whatever. Gin does not have a role left to play in that fight because as the main character of Bleach, that battle is Ichigo's magnum opus. So then we have to look beyond the Ichigo vs Aizen fight to see if Gin has a role left in Bleach. Yes it is true that Gin is still a pure Shinigami, unlike Tosen how become hollow enough to have a resurrection or the Espada and Arrancar... who are... well Hollows and therefore have no purpose other then death at the hands of the Shinigami (you know its true). However, while Gin is still very much loved by Rangiku and Kira probably would kill to have his captain back, as would most of 3rd Division, Gin has a long, long, long list of offences to his name that can't be forgiven that easily. Even if the Vizards are willing to overlook Gin's role in their hollowfication 100 years ago, Shinji (or Hiyori for that matter) is very unlikely to be forgiving of Gin's recent bifurcation of Hiyori. On top of that, Gin did help slaughter central 46, attempted to kill Rukia - which means that Byakuya and Ukitake are two captains who won't be keen to see Gin get of scot-free and did play an active role in Aizen's plots and plans for the last 100 years.
There is also the little matter of the 3rd seat of the 5th squad who Gin killed as a child but given it is the 5th squad we are talking about, it may yet be revealed that said 3rd seat was one of Aizen's goons that Gin saw. He also had blood on his face in the flashback where he mysteriously got Shinigami cloths in the recent chapter, which may indicate that, that was another Shinigami Gin killed. Maybe again one of Aizen's goons but the point is, while Gin might have done everything because he didn't want Rangiku to cry any more and wanted to return something to her... what he wanted to return is anyone's guess, Gin was still a malicious, sadistic guy who is unlikely to be accepted back into the Gotei 13 warmly or indeed, allowed to escape without punishment by the other captains and vizards. If that's the case, then there is no point in Gin surviving the day. He has no future. Which is why I have already started work on a Gin memorial page. *sob* Gin! Bleach is going to be boring without you! Tinni (Talk) 14:57, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
Yes, you are right that he was sadistic and did some ugly killings, and of course he won't be accepted back in Gotei 13...
But there are other ways to keep him alive, it all depends on TK's imagination :)
He was not one of my favourites, not at all but now in the end It's obvious why he did it and there is kindness to Rangiku in his actions - so i wouldn't like him to die.
The reason why he wanted the Hogyoku could be that the stone can make his wish true (for Rangiku to be just fine from now on).
Remember Koga of the bounts , he was supposed to die like the rest of them all but instead he was saved and allowed to carry on with his life. He is not of Gin's importance but he was on the "bad guy's side".
I don't know if there will necessarily be a fight between Aizen and Ichigo - because out of this either one of them must be defeated : if Ichigo looses (again) he will not die but get smacked pretty bad; if Aizen looses I will be extremely dissapointed because there is no way Ichigo beats him being this STRONG ! ... anyway if the author decides this than he will die, but it wouldn't fit the current situation - and then there should be another villain ! Who could it be ??
- Lots of questions so far - :)
Uhm. I really just skimmed that whole thing there...
But I didn't see any mention of Ichigo's appearance. Just the one thing I noticed; Tensa Zangetsu's chain is now long enough to wrap around his arm completely. Main reason I can think of for this is sort of to brace it for impact, make it so he doesn't lose the sword when using the final Getsuga. But that's just speculation. Ratiqu (talk) 18:23, August 19, 2010 (UTC)
Another thing that just came to my mind : i think that what was taken from rangiku is a part of her soul ... Aizen said that he took souls o present them to the hogyoku, we saw her lying there, seeming hurt. Maybe Gin Wanted to destroy it to restore Rangiku's soul to its child state.
Or something like that, anyway I suspect that what they are talking about is related to something took or stolen from her in order to create or complete the hogyoku.Panarama (talk) 07:24, August 20, 2010 (UTC)
i don't think ichigo's final GT is going to kill aizen considering how strong he is now, i also imagined final GT not exactly being just a stronger version of the original GT, i think it will have some kind of difference other than power. i also wonder why isshin didnt use final GT, if he can use it, he did say his engetsu also became violent when he fought it, but he could have lost to it —This unsigned comment is by IPsychotikz (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
Verry interesting chapter ... this leaves for great expectations and curiosity for the next one. Unfortunately Gin's chances are only to his death, but that was for a good reason. i wonder if he really believed that he will kill Aizen ? or he just tried, thinking that he buys some time until the rest of the "party" arrives.
However, for thr first time Ichigo is not leaking reiatsu :) this means a higher understanding of his strength and reiatsu.
Probably he will show a new kind of power - due tot the fact that he had to fight against his dual powering source - Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo...
i wonder if Aizen anticipated only that he will grow stronger or how he will evolve (the type of his atacks, new techniques, etc.)
Maybe there is a clue about his new strength in Gin's words about Ichigo's "strong eyes" - that is a strange evaluation ! maybe Ichigo fires something from his eyes...
I liked it, i hope that the plot will not kill Aizen easily :) ... remember when Ichigo asked Ulquiora to change the place of their batle ? - he defeated Ulquiora (after evolving to that strange hollow form).
I'm wondering whether Ichigo has somehow fused more completely with both Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo. That might explain his altered appearance. Also the fact that he is no longer leaking any reiatsu might mean that he has master control of his immense spiritual pressure which can only mean a dramatic increase in pretty much all of his abilities that we have seen so far.
I just hope that Aizen's claims at disappointment in Ichigo not evolving are sincere and not going to be revealed as yet more psychological manoeuvring. It's getting tiring to find out Aizen is seemingly all-knowing. His time for a beating has come!SutekinaKaoboi (talk) 13:21, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
Finally its Aizen vs Ichigo! Ichigos new appearance is kind of cool, hes a little more mature and has grown. He's not anymore this kind of Highschool-kid. He might have access to Hollow-Ichigos unique fighing style, which is kinda cool. But we shouldn't forget, Aizen has his Bankai und Aizen can use very impressive Kido on Ichigo (this might not work, because of Ichigos reiatsu, and we seen Aizen blocked most Kido with his...). I hope its going to be a long fight, hopefully the best til now. Kyōka Suigetsu (talk) 13:56, August 26, 2010 (UTC)
As far as Ichigo's "strong eyes" shooting something... no need to even say how rediculous that sounds. He was simply saying that he now looks like he's willing to fight and kill Aizen, not like what he looked like in FKT. I'm so excited to see what the Final Getsuga looks like, and what other kind of things he's learned.
Also, Gin was alive in this chapter, but that's not to say he'll survive. He's followed the general scenario Kubo has given whenever he kills a character: Character is wounded, has a flashback to explain something, had the black page with white text, and had one final chapter after that all. Though it pains me to say it, because I'm a huge Gin fan myself, but I'm resigned to the fact that he is likely dead. CJett92 (talk) 02:23, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that Aizen anticipated Ichigo's new powers due to his "disappointment" in not feeling his reiatsu. This is important as we all know since Ichigo has been leaking reiatsu for the whole series. —This unsigned comment is by Mercifulsilence (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!
Sealed Zangetsu ?
Now that Ichigo probably learned how to control his reiatsu, do you think that Zangetsu will be in his sealed form or will the sword remain in constant shikai form? Panarama (talk) 11:18, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
That is actually a very interesting question because constant release types are only that way due to constant leaking Reiatsu but somehow I doubt Kubo will ever have Ichigo with a sealed sword--God (Pray) 16:53, August 27, 2010 (UTC)
I think that he has so much reiastu that no one on his level can since it.(kind like when Azien first started to evolve). These are just my thoughts on it though.DaOne (talk) 02:33, August 29, 2010 (UTC)DaOneDaOne (talk) 02:33, August 29, 2010 (UTC)
Bankai... or something else?
Ichigo's Bankai now looks quite different from before. There's going to be a lot of questions as to what this can mean. I for one hope for a new release name (I'm hoping for Shinkai), and an explanation as to what lead to Ichigo's transformation.Lokker G (talk) 16:38, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
It is bankai. To say otherwise is a crack theory. All that has happened is Ichigo finally mastered his bankai. This new look reflects that. Also please sign your posts with four tildes--God (Pray) 01:21, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
There is another shinigami's Bankai that had the same issue. Besides, we'll find out what happened during Ichigo's training soon enough. All we have right now is opinions and ideas to this, so anything stated otherwise isn't for this section.Lokker G (talk) 16:38, August 30, 2010 (UTC)
Tensa Zangetsu's Guard
- To be clear: it wouldn't be a spoiler. Once the English scan of the chapter is out, it is no longer a spoiler. People just need to remember to state it in edit summaries etc if the are making edits based on the new chapter if it has only been released within the past few minutes so that other people know that it is indeed out. Do that and there should be no problem. In this case, feel free to discuss the chapter. ~~Ууp <talk> 14:28, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
Whats the point of reitsu if its better to convert it into raw strength? Doesnt reitsu amplify those things already? Man I think Ichigo is just haxing.Coyotestark (talk) 19:33, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
Aizen has done nothing but make claims to Ichigo's power and abilities, and is seemingly wrong on all accounts. I feel like this is a case of an ego trip, with the person getting what was coming to them. Aizen states that, since he felt no reiatsu, Ichigo is no threat to him; Ichigo has disproven that, and has damaged him, causing Aizen to start second-guessing himself (a first for the Shinigami with the biggest God-complex in Soul Society). He then postulates that he merely converted his reiatsu into raw fighting power; Ichigo continues to stomp on his theories by stopping his sword bare-handed, shatter Hadou #90 with a single swing, and state that the massive damage, that Aizen believed he caused, was his doing. Simply put: Aizen has been making very grave errors in his assessment of Ichigo's newfound power, and now he's paying for every one he made.Lokker G (talk) 22:13, September 2, 2010 (UTC)
All I see is Ichigo pulling crazy-awesome shit from places the sun dun' shine over and over again. And I'm loving it, though I know many who'd disagree. Aizen is the arrogant supervillian who can kick anyone and everyone's ass, and Ichigo's gonna put that shit down. It is a bit repetitive, though, in the sense that Ulquiorra and Grimmjow were both filling the same role to some extent. Ulquiorra more than 'Jow. Ratiqu (talk) 01:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
There is something strange here ... about Aizen's statement - Ichigo indeed doesn't let his reiatsu to be felt (Yuzu said it - that Aizen feels very strong while Ichigo felt normal)
What was logic so far in shinigami // arancar fighting - when they were fighting at full capacity or when releasing their shikai/bankai or resureccion their reiatsu went sky high - is not valid with Ichigo now. He is aware that he is stronger than Aizen (this is strange from the begining because the difference until now was huge between Aizen and anyone and now Ichigo is calm and confident that he can defeat Aizen and evenmore he understands his strength, how it works and how to use it).
How come that they cannot feel his reiatsu since his strength comes (probably) from mastering both Tensa Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo - which both manifest themselves by spirtiual pressure ????
so his strength came from reiatsu based entities but now he manifeste no reiatsu...
even if the level of his fight with Aizen wouldn't be too much for him now (!!!!) he is still in bankai ! and when in bankai everybody flows reiatsu in great quantities.
i don't agree with the supposition that he has so much reiatsu the others can't feel it ! if he had so much - the people he met in Karakura town would not resist to his aproach..
so it is true that he emits no reiatsu but how?
this is what i believe to be the interpretation of the facts so far => very interesting will be the explanation of his power, since it isn't just raw power, his spiritual strength is involved too.Panarama (talk) 07:27, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
- It's pretty simple. Reiatsu is a type of energy possessed in varying quantities by a spiritual being. Beings fight in the most crude way by colliding their reiatsu's against each other with the strongest winning. Ichigo has taken his immense reiatsu from his bankai and master of his inner hollow and completely subsumed it into physical power, i.e arm strength, speed etc. So Aizen cannot feel it because he is not emitting any and when Aizen attempts to attack Ichigo's reiatsu with his own, it fails because Ichigo's raw physical power outmatches Aizens.
- It's similar to the first time Ichigo released his bankai against Byakuya. Instead of the immense outpouring of reiatsu that most bankai's are, his concentrated it in his body, for speed and power. Byakuya remarked that Ichigo's bankai didn't seem like one at all because it didn't feel powerful, reiatsu wise. Now Ichigo has assumably mastered the technique and completely converted his spiritual strength into physical strength that enables him to fight Aizen on Ichigo's terms, where he is stronger. BollyW (talk) 09:10, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
i doubt that Ichigo's power relies only on his physical strength.
his main advantage in each fight was that he managed to use most of his reiatsu, it is the combined reiatsu force of Ichigo and Zangetsu that one that defeated Kenpachi.
His reiatsu doesn't get smaller when he goes to bankai but it is the form of his bankai that gets smaller, only the sword gets smaller.
So far every victory he had he achieved it through better use of his reiatsu, it has no sense to believe that by defeating the combined form of Tensa Zangetsu and Hollow Ichigo he only gained physical strength... where is Final Getsuga Tensho ? it will be just a strong punch ??
I think that Aizen is wrong with his statements... only a strong reiatsu can block a sword barehanded. When Aizen was atacked by Ichigo first time he defended against his sword with one finger because his finger was that strong ? When Ichigo tried to cut Kenpachi his sword stoped on Kenpachi's skin because he had tough skin? No, because Aizen and Kenpachi had so much reiatsu that they couldn't be cut by Ichigo at that time.
It's already been established that the stronger/more reiatsu an individual has, the more difficult it is for lesser fighters to sense it unless said individual wishes it so. The reason why Aizen can't sense Ichigo's reiatsu, is unable to cut Ichigo, and Ichigo is so calm and knows he will win, is b/c both in reiatsu/reiryoku and physical prowess, Ichigo dominates Aizen.
As much as I don't like that Ichigo turned into a god and will win so easily (likely/maybe), I'm glad to see Aizen get stomped on after god-modding this whole time.
Likewise which I forgot to point out, while the whole Hogyoku thing is so muddled now, if Ichigo's desire to defeat Aizen and protect his friends/family/home town is greater then Aizen's desire to become God, the Hogyoku will lol Aizen and side with Ichigo.OrionsGambit (talk) 16:58, September 3, 2010 (UTC)
I don't recall when it was said that lesser fighters can't sense a stronger oponent's reiatsu.. can you tell me what chapter or what arc gave the information?
i believe that Ichigo's physical power still comes from his spiritual power. it's just that it manifests "quietly" now, he doesn't have to release his reiatsu to the max to be able to fight Aizen. like keeping his entire reiatsu within himself.
It will be interesting to see if Aizen will die or not, so far he turned to be smart enough for his plan to succede no mater how many captains he had to fight or how many people he had to trick... it is unbelievable to me for Aizen to die just from one more power gain of Ichigo, it feels like it's too quick, or it seems too easy to me ... just strange, too easy to be defeated like this. Almost like a story destabilization.
Regarding the Hogyoku, Aizen said he subdued it ... so slim chances the hogyoku to turn to Ichigo's side. Gin took the stone into his hand but still it left back to Aizen's body, why would it listen more to Ichigo ? because he fights for the just cause ? ...
It would be a full reverse comparing to its actions so far .. not to listen to Aizen and follow Ichigo .
If it will be so (if the hogyoku betrys Aizen) than Aizen did not understand the hogyoku either ...
Chapter 406 is where it is explained. Somewhere in the middle.
And Aizen already contradicted his previous statement regarding "conquering" the Hogyoku. As much as Aizen lies and spews stuff to self-inflate his own ego, anything he's should be taken with a grain of salt anyway.OrionsGambit (talk) 19:10, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
- Really it's simple. As stated above, Ichigo's Tensa Zangetsu is different from most Bankai. Byakuya states that it shrinks down and focuses all of it's raw power into physical strength that massively arguments Ichigo's speed and strength. Remember reiatsu and reiryoku aren't synonymous. Reiatsu (Spiritual Pressure) is a force that focuses the user's spiritual energy (reiryoku) as a display of potency. Spiritual beings have the ability to incapacitate the opponent's movement and simultaneously frighten them, by means of dispersing Reiryoku into the air. Aizen is simply stating that Ichigo is not outputting any Spiritual Pressure. This shouldn't be so shocking. Byakuya notes that Ichigo's Bankai doesn't feel as powerful as other Bankai, which create immense effects or abilities based on the huge increase in Reiatsu.
- Presumably, Ichigo has now mastered Tensa Zangetsu and can now convert all of his reiatsu into raw physical strength. Obviously this doesn't mean he has no Spiritual Energy as he needs that to use his "Final Getsuga Tenshō", whatever that may be, as well as the Bankai itself, but Spiritual Energy on it's own doesn't cause any feelings. Since Ichigo isn't exerting his Spiritual Energy as Spiritual Pressure, Aizen can sense nothing, thus his and Tatsuki's statements about Ichigo feeling "normal". ~~TenTailedFox <talk> 20:49, September 4, 2010 (UTC)
Mastering Tensa Zangetsu
Tensa Zangetsu is an exception amongst Bankai. While others grow in intensity and size to complement the power release, Tensa Zangetsu shrinks into a daitou-like form, concentrating all the power of a Bankai into a focused blade. Though not much has been elaborated on what occurs upon subjugating the spirit of a Bankai, Ichigo appears to be much stronger and more controlled in regards to his Reiatsu. It would appear that, much like captains, his immense spiritual energy seems to no longer be leaking, to the point it seems like it does not exist (this is only speculation, and not to be taken as statement of fact). As this battle progresses, we may find out what this means, whether we see the process of his training, or it is somehow explained by currently unknown means. The appearance of Tensa Zangetsu has changed dramatically, with the guard appearing to be extended (almost like the manji seen in the written word "Bankai") and the prongs more pronounced. The chain now acts much like the cloth on Zangetsu, wrapping itself up Ichigo's arm (in a way reminiscent of Ichigo's first Bankai activation). It's most interesting that, even if it was the progression of time in the Dangai that caused this, Ichigo seems to have a similar hair style to that of Tensa Zangetsu, and almost matching his height. Whatever occured during his training will hopefully be explained soon.
Do you think that Ichigo cannot overpower Aizen after his last evolution therefore needs Final GT ?
so far there was not much fighting ... only a few blocked blows, a lot of talking from Aizen's side and his transformation. will Aizen fight a hollow style ? with ceros instead of kido ?
Chapter 427: A Delicious Dissonance
As Ichigo's life goes back to normal, a strange occurence has been brought up: Ichigo, who supposedly lost his spiritual power from using the Saigo no Getsuga Tenshō, has been showing signs of reiatsu. Though not much can be said at this point on the subject without it appearing as fanon, it can be said that there's a lot we do not not know. For instance, there have been no examples, besides Ichigo and Isshin, that concern the use of Jinzen while using Bankai. Using the acquired technique from this training means a (supposedly) complete erasure of one's spiritual power. It may be possible that this Final attack is similar to another clan's abilities.Lokker G (talk) 18:19, November 18, 2010 (UTC)
I just wanna really make a comment on the color page of this chapter. I'm sure that you guys have all realized this by now but who do you think the new enemy that Kubo is teasing in the color cover. I really dont want to see a new villain replace aizen, but since aizen is pretty much dealt with it makes me wonder whose going to take it even further than aizen. My geuss is that the soul king might be the villain and aizen might join with Ichigo in the end to fight It. I think this because Aizen seemed pretty mad that urahara was obeying the spirit king. But i dont think that was the mysterious black figure over Aizen on the cover page. It may just be the villain of the arc and not the new main villain of the series. Its just my geuss from all the information given to us in the story. So who do you guys think the character is? Also what do you guys think is going on with Ichigo's sister? Think she might become a soul reaper. Ok maybe not. But watsup with this new character thats stalking Ichigo. Let me know what you guys think. —This unsigned comment is by Vandiir (talk • contribs) . Please sign your posts with ~~~~!